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Another example of why tubeless is awesome.

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Another example of why tubeless is awesome.

Old 05-22-22, 08:43 AM
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chaadster
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Another example of why tubeless is awesome.

If I just said my ride yesterday was in a thunderstorm and that I got punctures in both tires, you wouldn’t think it was a great ride, but it was! The rain eased, and by the end of the ride, yielded to partly sunny skies, and the two punctures never went flat thanks to tubeless tires and sealant.

I saw the front go as we swept down a hill, a little geyser of fine, white mist accompanied by a telltale rhythmic hissing. It was only a few seconds after it stopped spewing and as I was turning over outcome scenarios that my Bolt beeped and a big “Go!” popped up on the screen. That settled it for me: I was going. It was a second or two as I followed a couple of wheels up the climb before I processed my road position and conditions and jumped out to power up the segment. No PR, but no flat either, so that was awesome!

We rode on, and I never even bothered to stop and inspect or air up the tire because it felt and looked fine.

It was about three hours later, back home and hosing down the grime off the bike, that I noticed some gunk on the rear tire and a cut in the tread. I set about my cleaning routine, and with the final wipe of the freshly lubed chain, I propped the bike on the porch and plopped in a chair to rest, reflect on the ride, and admire my clean bike. Suddenly there was a snap and a hiss; I got up to see a little bubbling on the rear tire. I dunno if it was sealed puncture reopening or a cut letting go for the first time, but I rotated it to the bottom and sat back down, just happy not have had any hassles out on the road.

Both tires are Schwalbe Pro One, and both are, or were, in good, newish, condition, so it’s gonna sting a bit to have to replace them. I’ll have to go check today and see how they look; I wasn’t sure I could even see the hole in the front yesterday, so maybe that’s okay to stay, but if there are multiple cuts in the rear, I might prefer fresh rubber there.

Anyway, tire damage is part of riding, so that’s that. For those interested, the front was a 23c at 100psi, and the rear a 25c at 100psi, both rolling Stan’s Race sealant.
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Old 05-22-22, 12:41 PM
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I thought that tubeless needed less pressure to seal than that. I know next to nothing about tubeless.
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Old 05-22-22, 01:08 PM
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I am sure I am effectively preaching to the choir however my 2 Cents worth. Yes tubeless can be a hassle however that hassle occurs at a time of my choosing not on the side of the road at I time which the last thing I would want to do is deal with a puncture. I just completed a month-long credit card tour of Spain, my approach is to spend a day or three in one location exploring before moving on. Thus I prefer a supple lightweight tire rather than the usual touring garden hose. Upon completion of a particularly taxing day on gravel I noticed latex on my legs and shoes while enjoying my post ride beer. Further inspection revealed a substantial cut in the tire. Repairing a puncture with a fully loaded bike on a gravel road baking in the sun is really not an enjoyable experience and one I would prefer to avoid. Next day the cut would not stop weeping and after a quick Dynaplug I never gave it another thought. As stated before the new Silca sealant is transformative and it will convert more than a few cynics after watching it work. As for the legacy complaints regarding tight fitting tires I have mounted Schwalbe, Specialized and Panaracer tires on Roval, Easton as well as two different DT Swiss rims all with minimal problems, nowhere near as bad as mounting a set of Gatorskins.

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Old 05-22-22, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Both tires are Schwalbe Pro One, and both are, or were, in good, newish, condition, so it’s gonna sting a bit to have to replace them. I’ll have to go check today and see how they look; I wasn’t sure I could even see the hole in the front yesterday, so maybe that’s okay to stay, but if there are multiple cuts in the rear, I might prefer fresh rubber there.
They've gotta be fine. In my experience, a 1/4" cut is about the break point for a permeant seal with my sealant (Orange Seal). If your sealant held for a while, the cut is probably in that range. In those borderline instances, I've used a (knotted) bacon strip and gotten the rest of the tread life out of the tire (a couple thousand miles, in the last instance).
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Old 05-22-22, 03:43 PM
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Atlas Shrugged I’ll be trying the Silca stuff next!
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Old 05-22-22, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
I thought that tubeless needed less pressure to seal than that. I know next to nothing about tubeless.
No, high pressure road tires seal up fine. I’ve been on road tubeless since ‘13 or ‘14 myself.
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Old 05-22-22, 08:34 PM
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I paid five dollars for the second-hand conventional, bald, cracked 27" tires on my road-bike and have put over a thousand miles on them in the last year without one flat, so I don't see any advantage to tubless tires. Is it that big of a burden to carry a tiny patch kit with you or have to sit on the side of a road, take in some scenery and work with your hands once in a while ??? I ride through a city that has it's street's glittering with broken glass, I hop curbs, and ride on gravel, no problems. There is someone born every minute willing to buy that better mousetrap which nobody needs, except the person making a nice living selling it to them.
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Old 05-22-22, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
I paid five dollars for the second-hand conventional, bald, cracked 27" tires on my road-bike and have put over a thousand miles on them in the last year without one flat, so I don't see any advantage to tubless tires. Is it that big of a burden to carry a tiny patch kit with you or have to sit on the side of a road, take in some scenery and work with your hands once in a while ??? I ride through a city that has it's street's glittering with broken glass, I hop curbs, and ride on gravel, no problems. There is someone born every minute willing to buy that better mousetrap which nobody needs, except the person making a nice living selling it to them.
Perhaps you should hire out your services if you can ride thousand plus miles with a bald and cracked $5 tire on glass strew urban streets without a flat. Obviously most of us are all doing it wrong.
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Old 05-23-22, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
I paid five dollars for the second-hand conventional, bald, cracked 27" tires on my road-bike and have put over a thousand miles on them in the last year without one flat, so I don't see any advantage to tubless tires. Is it that big of a burden to carry a tiny patch kit with you or have to sit on the side of a road, take in some scenery and work with your hands once in a while ??? I ride through a city that has it's street's glittering with broken glass, I hop curbs, and ride on gravel, no problems. There is someone born every minute willing to buy that better mousetrap which nobody needs, except the person making a nice living selling it to them.
You need to realise that flats are more common for some people. I got pretty sick of dealing with flats at the side of the road (that's not my idea of fun) and since running tubeless road tyres I have had just 1 flat at the roadside (repairable with a Dynaplug in seconds) in the last 3 years (approx 20k miles riding). Also the flat I got was a large cut on a high speed downhill that probably would have caused a crash on a tubed tyre.
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Old 05-23-22, 05:05 AM
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I just replaced my Pro Ones (32mm). The rear took a cut from a thorn that was about 1/8” (3mm). The cut sealed itself and lasted for several rides, but it was losing more air over night than normal so I patched it on the inside. It lasted about 2 miles at 60 PSI. Bulged up really badly and that was that. They sealed any number of punctures over about 3000 miles. The tiny cut, not so much. Maybe with fewer miles it would have been a different story.

Replaced with another set of Pro Ones.
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Old 05-23-22, 07:29 AM
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I did a 54 mile gravel race on Saturday, and suffered no punctures in my tubeless tires. Switched wheels for a 107 mile road race on Sunday, and suffered no punctures in my tubed tires. Incredible.
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Old 05-23-22, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
I just replaced my Pro Ones (32mm). The rear took a cut from a thorn that was about 1/8” (3mm). The cut sealed itself and lasted for several rides, but it was losing more air over night than normal so I patched it on the inside. It lasted about 2 miles at 60 PSI. Bulged up really badly and that was that. They sealed any number of punctures over about 3000 miles. The tiny cut, not so much. Maybe with fewer miles it would have been a different story.

Replaced with another set of Pro Ones.
Pro One are my favorites. I’d like to try some Pirelli for the first time, but I like and trust the Pro One so much, it’s a hard step to take.

Once, I was bombing down W. Clubhouse road in the Cascades park in Bloomington, IN, and as I approached what I wanted to be my braking zone for the upcoming 90º left-hander, there was a wide wash of flowing water across the road, like from a broken irrigation system or something. I was going fast, and not at all keen to lay on the brakes hard in the water, so I decided I was going to have to blast through the water and then do some really late braking. Terrified, and with freshly wetted tires but at least dry pavement, I grabbed the brakes hard, cranked the bike over, and prayed! I went wide, right out to the curb, but the tires bit and held the line. Easily the most terrifying turn I’ve ever taken because of that cement curb, but the Pro Ones earned my undying trust after that! Actually, those were the original One, and the tires have gotten even better since then.
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Old 05-23-22, 08:57 AM
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Tubeless are great, no doubt. I was getting, on average, a puncture a week on my MTB locally - due to thorns on the trails; we have a lot of thorny plants around - and sharp stones. I switched to tubeless since it had that option and not had a single flat since. That was 3 years ago and circa 5000km including racing! Naturally, the sealant is replaced every few months.

So yeah, tubeless works and for me, fixing an MTB puncture on a training ride, in a Group ride and, especially during a race, is a real pain I'm happy to avoid. If I get a puncture during the race, no amount of great scenery is going to make me feel better about not being able to compete while repairing it!

For my wife's e-bike, tubeless all the way and it has never had a puncture.

For my road bikes I'm not a convert - yet. If I got regular punctures interrupting my training or races, then sure, I'd switch them too. But as it is, punctures have been relatively rare. I always carry a spare tube and can change that pretty quickly during my ride and so, outside of racing, I'm just not that fussed to make the change and I am liking the S-Tubo tubes in my GP5000's.




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Old 05-23-22, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Pro One are my favorites. I’d like to try some Pirelli for the first time, but I like and trust the Pro One so much, it’s a hard step to take.

Once, I was bombing down W. Clubhouse road in the Cascades park in Bloomington, IN, and as I approached what I wanted to be my braking zone for the upcoming 90º left-hander, there was a wide wash of flowing water across the road, like from a broken irrigation system or something. I was going fast, and not at all keen to lay on the brakes hard in the water, so I decided I was going to have to blast through the water and then do some really late braking. Terrified, and with freshly wetted tires but at least dry pavement, I grabbed the brakes hard, cranked the bike over, and prayed! I went wide, right out to the curb, but the tires bit and held the line. Easily the most terrifying turn I’ve ever taken because of that cement curb, but the Pro Ones earned my undying trust after that! Actually, those were the original One, and the tires have gotten even better since then.
I am on P7's & have recently built more trust with them going down a wet, slightly muddy (& oily) surface doing well over 40MPH. It's not a straight line going down either, there's a couple of twists & it can expose you to some wind turbulence if the wheels have a tall rim. The old Vittoria Rubino Pro 4's I had before, I wouldn't have done such a dive, but the P7's made it seem too easy. I casually used the brakes to keep them clean from any potential kick-up, but didn't need to grab them for a fred moment.
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Old 05-23-22, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
I paid five dollars for the second-hand conventional, bald, cracked 27" tires on my road-bike and have put over a thousand miles on them in the last year without one flat, so I don't see any advantage to tubless tires. Is it that big of a burden to carry a tiny patch kit with you or have to sit on the side of a road, take in some scenery and work with your hands once in a while ??? I ride through a city that has it's street's glittering with broken glass, I hop curbs, and ride on gravel, no problems. There is someone born every minute willing to buy that better mousetrap which nobody needs, except the person making a nice living selling it to them.
It's great that you have not experienced flats, even riding over broken glass. My experience has been quite different. We have a big problem with goat head thorns in my area. I used to experience very frequent punctures from them. Since I switched to tubeless, they are hardly a concern. Carrying a small patch kit is not a burden for me. Stopping a ride to sit in a scenic area and work once in a while is a major nuisance. If I'm with a group, I will get left and have to finish the ride alone (or will cause several others to sit and wait, depending on what type of ride it is). During a race, punctures will delay me from finishing my leg and keep my team waiting at the next exchange point. In any case, even though I don't mind working on bikes, I like to do it on my terms, at a location and time I choose. Tubeless tires may not be for everyone, but they are certainly not the equivalent of a better mousetrap--something nobody really needs but marketers convince us to buy anyway. I'd say they've made a bigger difference than almost anything else for my biking enjoyment over the past several years.

But you do you. Nobody's trying to force you to switch, if you're happy with your bald and cracked used tires.
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Old 05-23-22, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
I paid five dollars for the second-hand conventional, bald, cracked 27" tires on my road-bike and have put over a thousand miles on them in the last year without one flat, so I don't see any advantage to tubless tires. Is it that big of a burden to carry a tiny patch kit with you or have to sit on the side of a road, take in some scenery and work with your hands once in a while ??? I ride through a city that has it's street's glittering with broken glass, I hop curbs, and ride on gravel, no problems. There is someone born every minute willing to buy that better mousetrap which nobody needs, except the person making a nice living selling it to them.
If only we could all be as tough, cool, and lucky as you, life would be grand...
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Old 05-23-22, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I did a 54 mile gravel race on Saturday, and suffered no punctures in my tubeless tires. Switched wheels for a 107 mile road race on Sunday, and suffered no punctures in my tubed tires. Incredible.

​​​​​​
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Old 05-23-22, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
I paid five dollars for the second-hand conventional, bald, cracked 27" tires on my road-bike and have put over a thousand miles on them in the last year without one flat, so I don't see any advantage to tubless tires. Is it that big of a burden to carry a tiny patch kit with you or have to sit on the side of a road, take in some scenery and work with your hands once in a while ??? I ride through a city that has it's street's glittering with broken glass, I hop curbs, and ride on gravel, no problems. There is someone born every minute willing to buy that better mousetrap which nobody needs, except the person making a nice living selling it to them.
If you're happy riding cheap & nasty tires with tubes, knock yourself out. But don't fall into the common fallacy of believing that your experiences are universal.
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Old 05-23-22, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AlgarveCycling View Post

For my road bikes I'm not a convert - yet. If I got regular punctures interrupting my training or races, then sure, I'd switch them too. But as it is, punctures have been relatively rare. I always carry a spare tube and can change that pretty quickly during my ride and so, outside of racing, I'm just not that fussed to make the change and I am liking the S-Tubo tubes in my GP5000's.
TPU tubes are a great option, a “next best thing” if not *the* best thing. I run Schwalbe Aerothan on my gravel bike rather than tubeless both because I have one pair of tires which are seemingly impossible to seal up, and because I only have one wheelset but run both summer and winter specific tires, so tubes makes switching tires faster and easier than messing around with tubeless.
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Old 05-24-22, 04:10 AM
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If you don’t get flats then I guess you don’t need them. If you do and get tired of changing a tube in rain or worse the cold rain then get TL.


Seems like a really easy choice.
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Old 06-01-22, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
There is someone born every minute willing to buy that better mousetrap which nobody needs, except the person making a nice living selling it to them.
So what you are saying is that anyone riding tubeless is a fool. Since there are 100s of thousands of us idiots here and abroad running tubeless and absolutely loving them I hope that the person selling them is making a very nice living. Before tubeless I repaired about a dozen flats a season. Now if I get a puncture it either fixes itself or can be fixed in two mins with a plug.

It’s a special breed that comes onto a forum and calls a very large segment, directly or indirectly, fools. You should be very proud of your superior knowledge. It’s too bad you didn’t invent tubeless and you could be making millions.
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Old 06-02-22, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
So what you are saying is that anyone riding tubeless is a fool. Since there are 100s of thousands of us idiots here and abroad running tubeless and absolutely loving them.
Yes, and there were hundreds of thousands, even millions who bought Brittney Spears records, so that must mean she was one of the greatest singers in world history, and smoking cigarettes must be good for you. What most people do is defined as "average", so it is a poor argument to say that because something is marketed in a Capitalist society and bought by a large part of the population that it is legitimate.
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Old 06-02-22, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
Yes, and there were hundreds of thousands, even millions who bought Brittney Spears records, so that must mean she was one of the greatest singers in world history, and smoking cigarettes must be good for you. What most people do is defined as "average", so it is a poor argument to say that because something is marketed in a Capitalist society and bought by a large part of the population that it is legitimate.
That you need to resort to dumb generalizations says a lot about your position, namely, you don't know what you're talking about. No one here is advocating tubeless for those that wouldn't see a net benefit. If your crusty tires get the job done for you, that's cool, but don't assume that others ride in the same manner, in the same conditions and for the same reasons as you.

Oh, and insinuating that Big Tubeless has ensnared a "large part of the population," is a laugh.
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Old 06-02-22, 08:56 AM
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Some people just can't embrace diversity. They feel uneasy when others are doing something different than they are.

And then there are those that feel if they do something that is good for them that it must be good for everyone.

Last edited by Iride01; 06-02-22 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 06-02-22, 09:15 AM
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prj71
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
For those interested, the front was a 23c at 100psi, and the rear a 25c at 100psi, both rolling Stan’s Race sealant.
People still ride tires that narrow?!

Oh goodness. In 2015 I was riding 28s. Now riding 32s.
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