Does anybody here, who races could tell me:

What's the average (ballpark) speed for CAT 4 races, for both men and women?

I know this depends on the distance, conditions and course type, but what's more or less expected
as an average speed on races at this level?

Thanks,

Corsaire

there needs to be a place where people can get this information. Because, like I would like to do some cycling racing but I have no idea if I am even in the ballpark to compete or not. Thankfully my LBS sponsors TT's every (week i think). One of these days I'm going to make myself go down there even if i get emberrased . The top speeds there are 25.7-26.7 if memory serves me right. That is sustained for 30 minutes. Supposedly there is a turn around half way through. I have no idea how that is accomplished.

24mph

In all seriousness (and my opinion)...racing has little to do with average speed except for a time trial. You have to hang with or be ahead of the pack to succeed. Men start at Cat 5 and once you feel ready and can upgrade, you move up.

But still, for example, we all have an idea, in the TDF, what's more or less the average speed on flat stages and mountain stages, and even an overall average speed, which is usually around 25-27 mph for the whole race.

Corsaire

So maybe add 2-4 miles per hour to your average trip speed. So if you average 17mph on a 30- 2 1/2 hour trip then add 2-4 then you can safely say well that means i can do maybe 21mph in a group. Of course terrain then comes into play here. E.g. if you are tackling lots of hills but not lots of flat ground you may not do so well on flats, etc.
But if your end number comes in 21+ then I would say you probably could hang with cat5 maybe?

I dunno know - I guess that is why it would be nice to have a little table so one could see whether one within one's own league.

Yeah, perhaps somebody with a lot of racing experience could pitch in........

Corsaire

Just race and you will get an answer within 20 seconds.

The idea that is being stressed is that racing contains accelerations that you must match in order to stay in the group. The average is just that...an average. Time is spent above that speed and time is spent below the speed. The speed is also not terrain dependent, people push the pace at all times in all conditions. You obviously want to stay with the lead group, and averaging x mph is not sufficient. You must be able to sustain short efforts at above that speed, as well as handle the technical nature of the course at the speed of the group.

Same as cat5 but over longer distances.

Yeah that's spot on. Cat 5's run about 23-25mph and Cat 4's are the same just longer, usually about 15 miles longer.

Is that AVERAGE speed (23-25 mph) ?!!!

Corsaire

Sounds about right, the prospect park races are around that, the last one I went to averaged 24.5mph.

Not necessarly true...

It sounds like you are thinking road races here... (yes it applies to criteriums also).

Here is a good example.

I have raced a 5 only and a 4/5 race on the same course, same day situation. The average speed was about 24 MPH for the 5 race and 25.2 MPH for the 4/5 race. This was a hillier crit so the averages were a bit lower than the usual 25 cat 5 and near 27 MPH cat 4 average I have seen. I have seen speeds though of 30+ MPH excess sustained in crits, I have also seen speeds as low as 21 MPH in crits. '

The only real indication though is how well you can go from 20 - 30 MPH acceleration and how well you can stay in the pack at a 25 - 27 MPH corner. Personally I can cruise with a ploton doing 30 MPH but slow to 18 - 20 then accelerate to 29 - 30 MPH and see who gets dropped. Average speeds mean nothing in a criterium, road races are slightly more important.

Just go out and race and see for yourself... that is the biggest indication of fitness.

Yeeh! I was flirting in my mind, with the idea of racing but I guess from what you guys are saying I' wouldn't be ready even if I had a rocket up my azz: In club groups rides (not racing but highly competitive though), right now, I'm doing 21 mph average (all out), and on the "sprints" 30 mph, all out, legs shredded, at the end. Uff, still a long way to go, huh? Terrain: flat to rolling.
I'm better at climbing though, that I can give to myself (slow twitch muscle fibers primarily)
It would be embarassing to even try a CAT 5!

What about women though?

Corsaire

You never know until you try. There's no shame in being shed off the back; you still went out and raced.

21mph average by yourself?
If so I would guess that it might be worth trying. Riding in group should add the necessary mph you need. Then its a matter of handling corners and acceleration both of which are things that you will only find out if you are willing to step off of the diving board.

Bike handling and dynamics of race concern me more than speed. I can ride solo at very nice averages no problem. But I can't take corners at speed and I sometimes 'slip up' in groups, for example a couple of weeks ago we were in a fast group going ~28mph into a stiff headwind taking turns at the lead. At one point I was at rear after my pull and got too comfortable, took a drink of water and realized that in seconds I dropped behind ~10ft and before I knew it had lost opportunity to re-close the gap because of the stiff headwind, so I didn't catch back up till the next meet location and suffered working much much harder than I did in the group riding into that wind solo.

Al

I always tell new guys that join the club that if they can do a flat 40k tt in 65-70 minutes they can hang in an average cat 5 circuit race. I was doing a 58min 40k TT at the time i stopped (i am a cat 4) and was hanging in ok on Cat 3/4 races. I was always near the front on Cat 4 races.

you never know until you put on makeup and pose as a woman for your first race. although they're just as quick often times so it may backfire on you.

I'm not a cat 4, but I've done citizen road races at 25mph up to 50 miles. It was actually pretty easy. On my own, I rarely have an average over 20 unless I set out on an impromptu TT.

As mentioned, it’s really the accelerations you have to be ready for. I find our group rides harder than races.

-murray

Average Speed has little relevance in Race situations. As has been mentioned several times in this thread and others, staying in the field is a combination of Bike Handling, Acceleration, Top Speed and Recovery. Nothing more, Nothing less. If you train and think in terms of maintaining "Average Speed" you will not be succesfull! Average Speed is not a factor, Average Speed is .....

Very true, but a base level of fitness is required to hang in. Which is why i tell new guys who asked the basic question of 'how fast should i be able to go' that a 65-70 min 40k tt time is a sufficient level of fitness to begin at Cat 5. All the other skills come with learning the craft which is why there on the team rides in the first place. The more racing you do, the more you learn pack skills and energy management. A first timer just wants to finish and not crash. I doubt they're worried to much about the tactical aspects of the race (such as the are at the Cat 5 level)

I understand the question. It just seems that often the training and outlook of new Racers is misguided. They approach Cycling like an edurance sport (eg running, tri's) which it is not. Just trying to get people to think about it a little differently.

I would agree somewhat with your base fitness numbers. However I know several decent 2's (myself included) who would have a difficult time beating 65min, but they were very good in the other areas I mentioned.

Actually, the reason I asked about women is because I just met this girl racer who is a CAT 4 ("bumped" into her while riding last weekend), didn't ask her about her skills though (she was doing a recovery ride), so it left me wondering...next time I see her I'll put it to the "test", she might kick my ass, who knows.

Corsaire

The women dont have a Cat 5. (unless they added one in the last year) Cat 4 is their beginner classification.