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30+ years between road bike purchases, what to get?

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30+ years between road bike purchases, what to get?

Old 09-22-23, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by noimagination
The bike I bought was one of the ones the OP specifically listed in his post. The price range he set in his original post was around $2,000.

I'm not denying that he could find a bike 10 lb lighter than his current bike. I'm answering his specific post with facts. Yes, if he considers bikes other than the ones he listed, and is OK with spending significantly more, then of course he can find a much, much lighter bike.

You said "...you'll be able to do it longer on a new bike that is probably going to be more than 10 pounds lighter," without any qualifying statements, implying that a bike meeting his original criteria (the models listed, the price point) would be "more than 10 lb lighter." I'm just cautioning him that he is not likely to find a bike meeting the criteria he set in his original post that is 10 lb lighter than his current bike.
Didn't seem like you were answering the OP's specific facts. If you were, then why even quote mine?

There is no doubt in my mind that the OP's bike is heavy for a road bike today or even back then. There were some bikes back then and earlier that were in the 19 lb pound range. My 1991 Schwinn Paramount and 1978 Raleigh Competition GS are 5 lbs lighter and they weren't the lightest bikes of their day back then as they came stock. Lighter wheels and components and they could have been another 2 or 3 pounds lighter.

The OP didn't seem to have any particular set for the criteria of the new bike. The 10 lbs was just a number that I threw out there. But I think they can find a bike out there that is close enough to 10 lbs lighter for their budget of 2000 - 2500 USD.

I imagine the OP's budget is just something they arbitrarily set. I had a low budget of that when I went looking for a new bike. And it was entirely arbitrary and not set based on what I could easily afford. It was my wife, that doesn't even ride a bike that suggested I spend more. I'm glad she did. And I think if the OP is in the same situation where money isn't a issue, then as I stated in my first post, spending $4000 or more might wind up being worth it to them as it was for me.

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Old 09-22-23, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Didn't seem like you were answering the OP's specific facts. If you were, then why even quote mine?
Because your post made claims that were, in my experience, inflated, and I wished to caution the OP that your post was an exaggeration.
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Old 09-22-23, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by noimagination
Because your post made claims that were, in my experience, inflated, and I wished to caution the OP that your post was an exaggeration.
Well I think you are exaggerating the lack of ability to find a lighter bike than the OP has. Again, the 10 lbs might be a stretch at $2000, but certainly for the $2000 - $2500 a bike can be found that is 7 to 8 pounds lighter.

And that is close enough to 10 lbs for me. There were significantly lighter bikes back when the OP's bike was made and there are significantly lighter bikes made today.

Canyon CF7 is 19 lbs. and $2199.
Canyon Endurace CF8 is 18.5 lbs and $2499.
Trek Emonda ALR5 is 19.9 lbs and $2299.

Sure, they aren't quite 10 pounds lighter, but again nothing in my post you think is a bald face exaggeration said that this was going to be within the OP's exact budget. Which again, I feel was a arbitrary budget and not based on financial ability.
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Old 09-22-23, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Beanboy


Here's the current bike BTW, still with the cadence sensor zip tied to crank arm. I've lost track the number of cassettes and chains I've worn out.
You can always upgrade and make your bike lighter with modern componentry such as Dura Ace 7800-7900, dual pivot brakes and better wheels.
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Old 09-23-23, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by georges1
You can always upgrade and make your bike lighter with modern componentry such as Dura Ace 7800-7900, dual pivot brakes and better wheels.
And pray that the Technium's glued joints hold.
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Old 09-23-23, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
And pray that the Technium's glued joints hold.
James Dak did the upgrade with his technium bike Raleigh technium upgrade and the results are mindblowing. The joints will hold don't worry
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Old 09-23-23, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
And pray that the Technium's glued joints hold.
Are there any reports of the Technium glued joint failing? All I've ever read about have been Technium bikes that were crashed, with damaged tubes but intact joints.
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Old 09-23-23, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Are there any reports of the Technium glued joint failing? All I've ever read about have been Technium bikes that were crashed, with damaged tubes but intact joints.
Me too
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Old 09-23-23, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by georges1
You can always upgrade and make your bike lighter with modern componentry such as Dura Ace 7800-7900, dual pivot brakes and better wheels.
Honestly, taking this bike and 'upgrading' to get to even 60% of a modern machine, will cost as much as the used bike the OP posted in his 1st post.
I mean, drivetrain complete onto a 126 rear (correct me if wrong on rear width) - drivetrain alone in new 105 is gonna be $700 ish? Wheels up to modern quality - costly
Tires, Brakes, saddle needed ?
Then what do you do with the fork? Leave the current one on and it'll still be a good plow horse, but not much of 'sport' horse.
Still a nice bike to bimble around on, but if one wants to do group rides (as OP noted) then why handicap yourself and still Spendy $2K on the old nag.
Maybe worth cleaning up/refreshing the consumables, and go ride with the other Collectibles riders... (not a statement of 'worth')- it's all good when on a set of wheels, but not a best bet for stepping to higher sporting level.
Modern Bikes are an extremely pleasurable experience; coming from someone who has more vintage 'gas pipe' than he reasonably should have...
I have some really great bikes from the 70's, 80's & 90's, but sadly they almostt never see the light of day. Gotta do something about that...
Ride On
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Old 09-24-23, 09:20 AM
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Look around, there’s a glut in the market these days from COVID induced hangovers. Lynskey (arguably the ‘real’ Litespeed) has been sending me emails offering full titanium bikes for $2,450. Canyon recently blew out its previous gen Endurace with R8000 Ultegra for $2,299. Both of these come with pretty entry level wheels and finishing kit, but they get you good frames and drivetrains to upgrade off of as parts wear out.

I would test ride a bike with electronic shifting. Not for me, but others swear by it.

Specialized Roubaixs and Trek Domanes have built in suspension that are interesting, too.
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Old 09-24-23, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Are there any reports of the Technium glued joint failing?
Yes. Most common are the bosses on the down tube. They can be repaired.
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Old 09-24-23, 10:08 AM
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I'm listening to Trakhak's video of titanium vs aluminum and CF fort stiffness and comfort. Engineering background here and I can't argue with his reasoning but ... I own two ti bikes and rode an early fat tubed aluminum frame. Both of my ti bikes are large tubed and stiff. (TiCycles who have been building stiff ti and steel bikes a long time.) My quick spin in that aluminum bike made it obvious that a 4-5 hour race over poor roads would be a very long day. My ti bikes, both with steel forks probably not very different from the one on that aluminum bike are all day riders. I've done 135 miles on my avatar bike, much if it in southern rural Washington with no discomfort. Both bikes were so much fun to ride over rough stuff I had to curb my impulses to not kill tires and rims. I kept finding myself seeking out potholes, etc because they were fun to ride over. Not what I would have ever done voluntarily with that aluminum bike. (1976 Klein.) My limited experience on modern aluminum and many tales I've heard from aluminum owners confirm what I felt on that ride. Yes, the new stuff is better and better tuned but the trend stays.

With all bikes, the builder gets to choose between larger diameter and stiff, less diameter and a more flexy and kinder ride. The old Merlins and Litespeeds are a lot less stiff than my ti bikes. I feel everything I ride over - but it just isn't an issue. But on that early Klein, I would have both felt all that road stuff and it would have gotten really old.

Oh, the ti vs aluminum comparison was done with sewups on that aluminum bike. Sewups on shallow rims; the magic carpets. I ran clinchers on far vertically stiffer Open Pros and Velocity Aeros on both ti bikes and for the first few years, before the graphene tires. So far stiffer, harsher wheels on the ti bikes and they still came out far ahead comfort-wise. Now both bikes are on the magic carpets. Bliss.
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Old 09-24-23, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclezen
Honestly, taking this bike and 'upgrading' to get to even 60% of a modern machine, will cost as much as the used bike the OP posted in his 1st post.
I mean, drivetrain complete onto a 126 rear (correct me if wrong on rear width) - drivetrain alone in new 105 is gonna be $700 ish? Wheels up to modern quality - costly
Tires, Brakes, saddle needed ?
Then what do you do with the fork? Leave the current one on and it'll still be a good plow horse, but not much of 'sport' horse.
Still a nice bike to bimble around on, but if one wants to do group rides (as OP noted) then why handicap yourself and still Spendy $2K on the old nag.
Maybe worth cleaning up/refreshing the consumables, and go ride with the other Collectibles riders... (not a statement of 'worth')- it's all good when on a set of wheels, but not a best bet for stepping to higher sporting level.
Modern Bikes are an extremely pleasurable experience; coming from someone who has more vintage 'gas pipe' than he reasonably should have...
I have some really great bikes from the 70's, 80's & 90's, but sadly they almostt never see the light of day. Gotta do something about that...
Ride On
Yuri
James Dak upgraded his model with dura ace7700 so we can assume it is a 135 rear spaced frame. You can still find nice1 inch carbon fork from look, easton,time, reynolds or profile on ebay. Dura Ace7700 -7800 Dual Pivot brakes will be as good as disc brakes. The neo retro trend is growing strong, so why not upgrade a good frame. You are not handicapping yourself but well spent money on good vintage frame with the right components can turn the bike in something great. If you go in the classic and vintage forum, you will notice that a lot of people have upgraded their old frame with modern components.
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Old 09-24-23, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
I'm listening to Trakhak's video of titanium vs aluminum and CF fort stiffness and comfort. Engineering background here and I can't argue with his reasoning but ... I own two ti bikes and rode an early fat tubed aluminum frame. Both of my ti bikes are large tubed and stiff. (TiCycles who have been building stiff ti and steel bikes a long time.) My quick spin in that aluminum bike made it obvious that a 4-5 hour race over poor roads would be a very long day. My ti bikes, both with steel forks probably not very different from the one on that aluminum bike are all day riders. I've done 135 miles on my avatar bike, much if it in southern rural Washington with no discomfort. Both bikes were so much fun to ride over rough stuff I had to curb my impulses to not kill tires and rims. I kept finding myself seeking out potholes, etc because they were fun to ride over. Not what I would have ever done voluntarily with that aluminum bike. (1976 Klein.) My limited experience on modern aluminum and many tales I've heard from aluminum owners confirm what I felt on that ride. Yes, the new stuff is better and better tuned but the trend stays.

With all bikes, the builder gets to choose between larger diameter and stiff, less diameter and a more flexy and kinder ride. The old Merlins and Litespeeds are a lot less stiff than my ti bikes. I feel everything I ride over - but it just isn't an issue. But on that early Klein, I would have both felt all that road stuff and it would have gotten really old.

Oh, the ti vs aluminum comparison was done with sewups on that aluminum bike. Sewups on shallow rims; the magic carpets. I ran clinchers on far vertically stiffer Open Pros and Velocity Aeros on both ti bikes and for the first few years, before the graphene tires. So far stiffer, harsher wheels on the ti bikes and they still came out far ahead comfort-wise. Now both bikes are on the magic carpets. Bliss.
Never succumbed to the theoretical lure of titanium. Whatever curiosity I had about the bikes was probably killed when two teammates bought ti bikes in the '80s and managed to ride them hard enough to crack them.

In any event, after decades of riding high-end steel race bikes, the only difference I can detect between those and the aluminum bikes I've long since replaced them with is that the aluminum bikes have greater torsional rigidity. That's probably why I love the way my aluminum bikes handle on fast, windy descents. No difference in "comfort" attributable to the frame material, though. As one would expect, as quantified in the Peak Torque video referenced by 79pmooney above.

I'm sure others beside me have noticed that, in hobbies that seem to attract males disproportionally, such as boutique audio, guitars, and guitar amplifiers (and in our little corner, high-performance bicycles), the more nebulous the claim (the superiority of tube versus solid-state amplification, of analog to digital, of exotic "tonewoods" to alder or basswood in solid-body guitars, for God's sake), the more exotic the metaphors employed in extolling the favored choice and the more ecstatic its description.

Titanium is great for scratch resistance. I'll give it that. Although my polished aluminum Bikes Direct Motobecane Le Champion, from 2005, is still scratch-free, too.

By the way, to address only one of the points in the quoted post: I probably believed that wheels differed in vertical stiffness at one point, decades ago, but my experience has led me to conclude that any correctly tensioned wheel will be exactly as vertically stiff as any other such wheel.

Here's a Sheldon Brown page on wheel stiffness. You have to read pretty far down the page to discover that only lateral stiffness was measured, vertical stiffness apparently having been regarded as unimportant because effectively invariant. As demonstrated at the link below, any imputation of a difference in comfort due to vertical wheel stiffness is imaginary, princess-and-the-pea territory.

In my '70s, my belief is that, if you feel the need to insist, regarding some common but hard-to-prove bicycle lore, "But I feel it!," the only sensible response is, "No you don't."

From this page:

I’ve been in the garage taking measurements with my second generation “Killa’s Garage Vertical Wheel Deflection Measurement Device” and I now know how stiff a bicycle wheel is vertically. Let me tell you, it’s plenty stiff. A 165lb load on my test wheel deflected the rim vertically about 6 to 8 thousandths of an inch. That’s less than the thickness of two sheets of paper! That’s 165 lbs on one wheel, not two.
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Old 09-24-23, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Never succumbed to the theoretical lure of titanium. Whatever curiosity I had about the bikes was probably killed when two teammates bought ti bikes in the '80s and managed to ride them hard enough to crack them.

In any event, after decades of riding high-end steel race bikes, the only difference I can detect between those and the aluminum bikes I've long since replaced them with is that the aluminum bikes have greater torsional rigidity. That's probably why I love the way my aluminum bikes handle on fast, windy descents. No difference in "comfort" attributable to the frame material, though. As one would expect, as quantified in the Peak Torque video referenced by 79pmooney above.

I'm sure others beside me have noticed that, in hobbies that seem to attract males disproportionally, such as boutique audio, guitars, and guitar amplifiers (and in our little corner, high-performance bicycles), the more nebulous the claim (the superiority of tube versus solid-state amplification, of analog to digital, of exotic "tonewoods" to alder or basswood in solid-body guitars, for God's sake), the more exotic the metaphors employed in extolling the favored choice and the more ecstatic its description.

Titanium is great for scratch resistance. I'll give it that. Although my polished aluminum Bikes Direct Motobecane Le Champion, from 2005, is still scratch-free, too.

By the way, to address only one of the points in the quoted post: I probably believed that wheels differed in vertical stiffness at one point, decades ago, but my experience has led me to conclude that any correctly tensioned wheel will be exactly as vertically stiff as any other such wheel.

Here's a Sheldon Brown page on wheel stiffness. You have to read pretty far down the page to discover that only lateral stiffness was measured, vertical stiffness apparently having been regarded as unimportant because effectively invariant. As demonstrated at the link below, any imputation of a difference in comfort due to vertical wheel stiffness is imaginary, princess-and-the-pea territory.

In my '70s, my belief is that, if you feel the need to insist, regarding some common but hard-to-prove bicycle lore, "But I feel it!," the only sensible response is, "No you don't."

From this page:

Iíve been in the garage taking measurements with my second generation ďKillaís Garage Vertical Wheel Deflection Measurement DeviceĒ and I now know how stiff a bicycle wheel is vertically. Let me tell you, itís plenty stiff. A 165lb load on my test wheel deflected the rim vertically about 6 to 8 thousandths of an inch. Thatís less than the thickness of two sheets of paper! Thatís 165 lbs on one wheel, not two.
Good info there.

If the OP chooses a new endurance bike it will have 30 or 32 mm wide tyres, which will offer plenty of comfort at lower pressures. I also find that relatively compliant carbon seatposts and bars make a big difference to comfort and road vibration. The frame is effectively rigid in regard to vertical deflection. The carbon seatpost on my Canyon Endurace deflects approx 5 mm under load and the carbon bars soak up much of the road vibration through my hands. Iíve ridden this bike 200 km without a break on pretty rough back roads.
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Old 09-25-23, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Well I think you are exaggerating the lack of ability to find a lighter bike than the OP has. Again, the 10 lbs might be a stretch at $2000, but certainly for the $2000 - $2500 a bike can be found that is 7 to 8 pounds lighter.

And that is close enough to 10 lbs for me. There were significantly lighter bikes back when the OP's bike was made and there are significantly lighter bikes made today.

Canyon CF7 is 19 lbs. and $2199.
Canyon Endurace CF8 is 18.5 lbs and $2499.
Trek Emonda ALR5 is 19.9 lbs and $2299.

Sure, they aren't quite 10 pounds lighter, but again nothing in my post you think is a bald face exaggeration said that this was going to be within the OP's exact budget. Which again, I feel was a arbitrary budget and not based on financial ability.
I provided data backed by personal experience, referring to the specific questions and parameters in the OP.

You provided speculation, directed to specifics outside the limits listed in the OP.

The OP can decide for himself what value to put on any post in this thread.
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Old 09-25-23, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by noimagination
The OP can decide for himself what value to put on any post in this thread.
I always expect that the OP can decide for themselves what value to them there is in any particular post made.

You obviously don't seem to believe what you just stated since you felt it necessary to warn the OP about my post that you made up your own criteria for.
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Old 09-26-23, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Titanium is great for scratch resistance. I'll give it that.
Not from my experience with a titanium watch. Scratched much more easily than stainless steel watches.
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Old 09-26-23, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by georges1
You can always upgrade and make your bike lighter with modern componentry such as Dura Ace 7800-7900, dual pivot brakes and better wheels.
You could do that

Iím not sure what on earth would possess anyone to do so though 😁

Get the Domane. But yeah the full price thing on 11sp point someone madeÖ worth looking around.
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Old 09-30-23, 10:40 AM
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What ate the people in your part of the world like? Do they give you a hard time is your bike is not as good as their bike? That is something to think about when buying a new bike. People where I live want bragging rights they like to talk about how much they paid for each component. How much they paid for there bike. My bike is very low price they make fun of my bike. Does anyone else have to deal with snooty people that have a attitude? People in my town act like if you didn't pay $5000 or more for your bike we don't want you riding with us. That attitude makes me want to rub it in deep as possible. Then I say, my brake lever, cable and pads came from a $3 yard sale bike. LOL. Several people says, your not riding with me. I like to tell them, I don't care if my bike weighs 1/2 ounce more than your bike. I am not trying to win a beauty contest either. Years ago when I lived in another town people were nice no one cared what bike you road. I have been riding alone for 12 years I stay away from the snooty people.
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Old 09-30-23, 11:23 AM
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Check out Canyon and Rose, two German brands that sell direct to customer.
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Old 09-30-23, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Crash2Much
What ate the people in your part of the world like? Do they give you a hard time is your bike is not as good as their bike? That is something to think about when buying a new bike. People where I live want bragging rights they like to talk about how much they paid for each component. How much they paid for there bike. My bike is very low price they make fun of my bike. Does anyone else have to deal with snooty people that have a attitude? People in my town act like if you didn't pay $5000 or more for your bike we don't want you riding with us. That attitude makes me want to rub it in deep as possible. Then I say, my brake lever, cable and pads came from a $3 yard sale bike. LOL. Several people says, your not riding with me. I like to tell them, I don't care if my bike weighs 1/2 ounce more than your bike. I am not trying to win a beauty contest either. Years ago when I lived in another town people were nice no one cared what bike you road. I have been riding alone for 12 years I stay away from the snooty people.
Larry, is this you?
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Old 09-30-23, 05:33 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Crash2Much
What ate the people in your part of the world like? Do they give you a hard time is your bike is not as good as their bike? That is something to think about when buying a new bike. People where I live want bragging rights they like to talk about how much they paid for each component. How much they paid for there bike. My bike is very low price they make fun of my bike. Does anyone else have to deal with snooty people that have a attitude? People in my town act like if you didn't pay $5000 or more for your bike we don't want you riding with us. That attitude makes me want to rub it in deep as possible. Then I say, my brake lever, cable and pads came from a $3 yard sale bike. LOL. Several people says, your not riding with me. I like to tell them, I don't care if my bike weighs 1/2 ounce more than your bike. I am not trying to win a beauty contest either. Years ago when I lived in another town people were nice no one cared what bike you road. I have been riding alone for 12 years I stay away from the snooty people.
I would happily ride with you. There seem to be an oversupply of dickheads where you live.
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Old 09-30-23, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Crash2Much
What ate the people in your part of the world like? Do they give you a hard time is your bike is not as good as their bike? That is something to think about when buying a new bike. People where I live want bragging rights they like to talk about how much they paid for each component. How much they paid for there bike. My bike is very low price they make fun of my bike. Does anyone else have to deal with snooty people that have a attitude? People in my town act like if you didn't pay $5000 or more for your bike we don't want you riding with us. That attitude makes me want to rub it in deep as possible. Then I say, my brake lever, cable and pads came from a $3 yard sale bike. LOL. Several people says, your not riding with me. I like to tell them, I don't care if my bike weighs 1/2 ounce more than your bike. I am not trying to win a beauty contest either. Years ago when I lived in another town people were nice no one cared what bike you road. I have been riding alone for 12 years I stay away from the snooty people.
Guy we didn't know shows up on a group ride last week with a steel Panasonic branded bike. I'm guessing it was from the 1980's? Most of us rolled our eyes until he went to the front and pulled like a freight train. It wasn't until the big climbs, however, that NOBODY was snubbing him anymore. We were just hanging on for dear life! I suppose the moral to that story was don't judge a book by it's cover?
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Old 10-01-23, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la
Yep. You can get a carbon fiber Canyon Endurace with 12sp SRAM Rival AXS for $3k, or 12sp 105 Di2 for $2700.

These are both above the OP's stated budget, and not the preferred frame material, but I'd definitely be getting one of those instead.
​​​​​​I got one and like it. But I struggled with some issues (notably seatpost creaking) and I learned the downside of Canyon -- the technical support is pretty bad. You are on your own for the most part. Couldn't even get them to clarify whether the seatpost clamp should be 7 Nm or 5 Nm due to contradictory information
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