Search
Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Helmets

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-30-24 | 07:49 PM
  #51  
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
5 Anniversary
Community Builder
Community Influencer
 
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 10,385
Likes: 14,927
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
I guess you can call them beliefs, but honestly I just consider what I've said the result of a bit of research, common sense, and a wee bit of critical thought. These calls to back up what I'm saying, which I attempt to do, are met for some reason with just more and more challenges. Not sure exactly why.
You’ve not offered a single piece of evidence that the VA Tech helmet lab has received any funding from a helmet manufacturer. (Your “beliefs” are not evidence.)

Your version of “common sense” and “critical thought” betrays a complete failure to understand public universities and the research process.

Since you claim to not understand why I’m challenging you, I’ll make it as clear as possible: I hate bs. If you don’t want to be challenged, then don’t make entirely unsupported claims - especially on a cycling forum when we’re discussing a respected neutral organization that’s trying to help us make safer decisions.

Last edited by Koyote; 05-30-24 at 08:32 PM.
Koyote is offline  
Reply
Old 05-30-24 | 09:42 PM
  #52  
Senior Member
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,774
Likes: 1,748
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Isn't that a slippery slope? Research costs money (eg. salaries). those fees are perhaps are therefore returned into funding operations. Yes, they're a non-profit, but there's still incentive to continue operations.
You're correct. Non Profit is more accurately - "Not for Profit". It doesn't mean the business doesn't make money. It means it doesn't exist to make a profit. It exists to provide services and any money that is made beyond expenses (IOW "profit") is put back into services, salaries, infrastructure to support the services, or reasonable cash reserves - rather than to shareholders profits. Universities can do the same and often have "Centers" and such that are similar to stand alone entities and some of them generate income from their activities to keep themselves in business. I wouldn't be surprised if the helmet testing thing is set up that way.
Camilo is offline  
Reply
Old 05-31-24 | 04:46 AM
  #53  
PeteHski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 11,620
Likes: 7,017
Originally Posted by Sy Reene

While the reviews aren't biased by intent, I do wonder if what they review is based on who sends them product to review?
Is there a major helmet manufacturer absent from their tests? All the brands I can think of are included.
PeteHski is offline  
Reply
Old 05-31-24 | 09:37 AM
  #54  
Sy Reene's Avatar
Advocatus Diaboli
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 9,154
Likes: 1,744
From: Wherever I am

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Originally Posted by Koyote
You’ve not offered a single piece of evidence that the VA Tech helmet lab has received any funding from a helmet manufacturer. (Your “beliefs” are not evidence.)

Your version of “common sense” and “critical thought” betrays a complete failure to understand public universities and the research process.

Since you claim to not understand why I’m challenging you, I’ll make it as clear as possible: I hate bs. If you don’t want to be challenged, then don’t make entirely unsupported claims - especially on a cycling forum when we’re discussing a respected neutral organization that’s trying to help us make safer decisions.
It really doesn't matter whether or not they receive donations and money from the helmet industry. In itself there's nothing wrong with that. I don't really even care if that somehow prioritizes which products get reviewed first or next.

The crux of my issue with the entire setup is their testing itself, and I've laid out what issues I see with their methodology back in POST 25. Their test protocols are available to anyone. The fact that their test equipment lacks actual human characteristics is also obvious. What is unknown is whether their omitted characteristics matter to actual helmet safety. I can't prove that these factors matter, but intellectually I think they could. I also cannot find anybody that has provided any rationale or scientific support as to why those factors do not matter. So you can call my concerns BS if you like, but there's neither proof nor disproof that my concerns are relevant.

Here's a little exercise anyone can perform right now. Take 3 fingers, line them and push on your forehead about where a cycling helmet cage would be. Then move around -- see how you can move up/down/left or right, or in little circles. This simple phenomenon is not replicated by any test that I can determine.

So my claim is basically that I believe the VaTech's cycling helmet reviews have become the industry's de facto standard, but perhaps undeservedly so. The marketplace accepts their rankings because they're the only game in town. Their test platform could be inherently favoring MIPS (and alternatives such as the revolutionary Wavecel) results, and likely be a large contributor to MIPS taking off commercially. MIPS in itself, generally, adds cost, weight, and decreases ventilation vs helmet designs that don't include MIPS. I'd prefer there to be more substantiated evidence that these tradeoffs are definitely worth it for the real amount of increased safety. I do imagine that the reason these factors aren't tested is that it's prohibitive to do so -- requiring much more elaborate headform constructions, and if you even could get one of these made with a sliding exterior layer (like a scalp or with hair), that in testing these will wear out and be consumed fairly quickly -- being unusable for continued and multiple repetitive testing.
Sy Reene is offline  
Reply
Old 05-31-24 | 10:19 AM
  #55  
Sy Reene's Avatar
Advocatus Diaboli
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 9,154
Likes: 1,744
From: Wherever I am

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Originally Posted by PeteHski
Is there a major helmet manufacturer absent from their tests? All the brands I can think of are included.
Partial lists linked below; I do realize there's some overlap between these though. I also realize that many of these are brands that the US market can't access from domestic sellers, but I'd still would like to see the tests. I think you're in Europe aren't you, so maybe more familiar with some of these brands.

Filtered1
Filtered2
Sy Reene is offline  
Reply
Old 06-06-24 | 10:26 AM
  #56  
mphey's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Jun 2024
Posts: 14
Likes: 3
From: brooklyn, ny
Amazing what people will pay to think they look less like a dweeb!
mphey is offline  
Reply
Old 06-07-24 | 04:34 PM
  #57  
Sy Reene's Avatar
Advocatus Diaboli
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 9,154
Likes: 1,744
From: Wherever I am

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Originally Posted by Tondo
Try to find last year's model of the helmet you choose on clearance.
but, but, but, a helmet is only good for 5 yrs, so make sure it's been discounted by more than 20%
Sy Reene is offline  
Reply
Old 06-15-24 | 11:57 AM
  #58  
Newbie
 
Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 32
Likes: 93
Originally Posted by Iride01
I'm not sure why a e-bike needs a different helmet for >30mph. Wouldn't that mean those of us on regular bikes going faster than 30mph need a different helmet?
Maybe because e-bike riders tend to have a different average competence level than those who can power their own bike to 30mph…
howeric is offline  
Reply
Old 06-16-24 | 02:13 AM
  #59  
znomit's Avatar
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,938
Likes: 1,003
From: New Zealand

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Trek Marlin 6, Scott Sub 35, Kona Rove, Trek Verve+2

Originally Posted by howeric
Maybe because e-bike riders tend to have a different average competence level than those who can power their own bike to 30mph…
Maybe because they're doing that speed in city traffic not in their imagination?
znomit is offline  
Reply
Old 06-16-24 | 08:49 AM
  #60  
Iride01's Avatar
Facts just confuse people
Titanium Club Membership
5 Anniversary
Community Builder
Community Influencer
 
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 19,425
Likes: 7,116
From: Mississippi

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Originally Posted by howeric
Maybe because e-bike riders tend to have a different average competence level than those who can power their own bike to 30mph…
So in Darwin's survival game, of those that crash in accidents that will involve head trauma, we want the people with lesser abilities to have a better chance to survive? <grin>.

Welcome to BF!
Iride01 is offline  
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.