Totoro

I recently purchased a bike frame on Ebay. The seller says it is the first time she sold a bike frame and that she miscalculated the shipping charge. I have already paid for the frame and shipping and now the seller wants an extra $11. I know it's not much, but should I pay it?

Cost of frame $200. Paid $25 shipping plus insurance.

Grasschopper

Where is the seller located? I can't imagine that ground shipping (assuming that method) would cost more than that.

Ok I just went to UPS.com. IF the seller is in Imperial Beach, CA (as far from MA as I could find in the con US) and IF the box weighs 10 lbs, and IF the seller went to a retail store (UPS store charges WAY more than if you have UPS account), and IF this is being delivered to a residential address (UPS charges a surcharge for residential delivery) the insured cost for UPS ground service would be $18.04. That cost doubles for 3 day select and may be even more because bike boxes aren't small and when they do air service the package size factors into the price.

intence

This is tough, the seller should have known better. If it was me, I would have just eaten the extra cost of shipping (done it many times).

If you don't pay the $11, let's hope the seller still packs/ships the frame nicely. Maybe ask the seller to split the difference w/you? You could be firm and just not pay the additional charges, but then that might turn ugly if you don't get the frame, if it arrives damaged, etc.

filtersweep

Tell her you would have bid $11 less if you knew shipping were $11 more.

FIVE ONE SIX

i've been selling on eBay for over 5 years, i've sucked up the difference that i've estimated for shipping a fair amount of times, and if the seller is respectable they would do the same. it looks like they not a regular seller, because if they were they would make the money back through other auctions, since the same way that people under estimate shipping charges is the same way that they over estimate shipping charges. i wouldn't pay the extra $11, and i would use a credit card linked to paypal to pay for the auction, that way if there are any problems your credit card will cover you...

i'm not trying to be an ***, but the listing is an agreement, and it goes both ways. the seller should have packaged the item and brought it to the shipper before they listed it, to get the exact size and weight, and then used the shipping calculator in the auction. if they didn't do that, they should suck up the loss, and learn from it like everyone else does...

if they don't ship it well because you don't pay the extra money, just leave them a negative, that's what they're there for...

Cornbread

Depends if the shipping price was listed in the auction. If she listed $25 as the cost of shipping in the auction, then absolutely do not pay her the $11. If she won't send it, tell her you are going to file a claim with eBay and leave negative feedback if she doesn't send it to you for the contractually agreed price.

On the other hand, if the seller said buyer pays actual shipping, then I guess you have to pay it. However, I would give thought to leaving her neutral feedback in 6 months (or whatever is the last day you can post feedback to avoid a retalitory neutral).

jqnj

Split the difference and be done with it. While not your fault, it will salvage the deal.

oopfoo

Shipping frame-sized boxes coast-to-coast in the continental US is $50 to $60 (US dollars), depending on your use of UPS drops or retail stores. Halfway is closer to $30. Frames and whole bicycles cost about the same (assuming you shove the wheels in the same box), as it's the oversize packaging that causes the hit; you're effectively charged for a 70-pound package. With fuel (ground and aero) prices the way they are, this is going to only get worse. Use a shipping calculator or offer shipping refunds!

jdtschida

I agree with this solution.

I'm not sure what type of seller you are dealing with. If it is a private party who doesn't sell that often, then they are just like the rest of us, and people make mistakes. You can't necessarily treat them like they are running a business and that they should suck up the mistake.

I just bought a new road frame from a guy on EBay. UPS quoted him $41 shipping for a frame/fork!!! I was very suprised, seemed high to me. he agreed, and was OK with me paying $35 and he would cover more if it in fact was higher. UPS and Fedex do have online calculators, but it has been my experience that they are often very wrong. I'm not sure why, I assume they figure high because people can't weigh things properly or something...

dahvaio

Don't pay the $11 because it is her mistake. If the shipping price is listed, it is a binding contract once the buyer has paid. The seller must either refund the entire amount or send the product as described.

I highly doubt that she would have refunded money back if the shipping had been a lot less...

She needs to learn to pay attention to details before selling on Ebay...

Totoro

Actually it is a business located in California. The seller is an Ebay Powerseller, called onlineauctionplace, which deals mostly with smaller items. This is their ad:

"As Power Sellers we are Bakersfield's eBay drop-off store. We sell a variety of items and focus on areas such as business inventory, estate items, vehicles/parts, and real estate too! We also sell antiques, household goods, camera equipment, electronics, and more. Stop on by!"

Totoro

The seller already shipped the frame. It should arrive today. But I haven't paid the extra charges yet.

Grasschopper

This isn't acurate. Ground service does NOT use dimensional weight in the price equation. If the shipper is telling you it does they don't know what they are doing or are ripping you off. Trust me on this I have shipped hundreds of boxes of golf clubs and several bikes all over this country. Now if you use USPS that changes but the major shippers all work this way (UPS, FedEX, DHL), ground is by weight.

oopfoo

Well, I'm getting ripped off, by both the local retail shop and the local UPS drop. I've questioned and questioned these prices, and I'm NOT getting any different answers from the shippers. Do you have any information regarding this policy, i.e., from the UPS or FedEx sites?

Guest

I agree it's not your problem. Let her learn her lesson and eat the price of shipping.

Koffee

Totoro

Thanks for your replies. I sent an e-mail to the seller saying I would not pay the extra charges. Here is her response:

So, my question would be: If the shipping calculator is not accurate, why use it. BTW: Here is the original email I received when I purchased the frame:

lotek 

split the difference and be happy that the frame was shipped
and you get it in good condition.
so it was the sellers mistake, you gonna take advantage of someone
else's mistake?
I've underpaid shipping and overpaid and had overpayment refunded
once. It all comes out in the wash.

marty

jdevi

This seller sounds really unprofessional. I would not give her the $11, if she is a "power-seller" then she should know better than to whine and say that you are not understanding. She sounds like a money grubber, I would actually detail this experience in the feedback portion of e-bay. I suspect this may happen quite a bit with this seller, it is probably her way of getting people to bid higher - by making them think they a getting a deal. Then she comes out of left field with her shipping woes. It likely works some of the time and people pay her more.

If she truly has just made a mistake, it is a cheap mistake. She should move on and get over it!

Grasschopper

Ok I took the time to look it up. https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/re...im_weight.html

Here is oversized packge info: https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res...?WT.svl=SubNav

So what is the size of a frame box? Last bike I shipped cost me $24 insured for $800 (note that UPS covers first $100 of insurance on all packages so this is $700 of additional coverage) to ship UPS ground. Maybe I am beating the system?

socalrider

Shipping rates are based on distance shipped.. If the seller is being straight with you, pay the difference. Tell the seller to include a copy of the shipping receipt..

Cornbread

All right, I think its crap but I think you should pay the 11 bucks in this case. The seller did say you have to pay actual shipping and didn't give a fixed rate other than the $13.50 packaging fee. I don't like that you were sent an invoice with the total price though. Maybe you can check what eBay's policy is on this. Overall, the seller said you have to pay all shipping and so there is is. $11 probably isn't worth a negative feedback. However, this is why I only deal with people that either have a fixed shipping price in the auction or who I can get a shipping quote from beforehand. Also Grasschopper's $24 shipping plus the $13.50 packaging seems to be in line with the $36 you are paying.

On a side note, I didn't like how she 1) told you you got a "good dea" on the bike. There were 14 bids, you got a FAIR price. 14 bids on eBay pretty mcuh guarantess market value. and 2) talked about her partner's achilles tendon. Who cares? How does that affect me? What, you want some sympathy points? I don't give a crap.

Totoro

Actually that is not the case. If you read carefully, the actual shipping charge statement is for international bidders only. The shipping calculator is used for domestic shipping and, according to the auction terms, includes the packaging fee. I considered this cost before bidding. If they didn't provide actual shipping charges in the calculator, I wouldn't have bid without contacting the seller first to find out how much shipping would be.

This is what the shipping calculator gave as shipping charges:

oopfoo

Note the category Oversized 2 (OS2) on the second link you provided. It would appear that in the cases I mention, that my packaging exceeded the 108-inch length-girth measurements, placing the package inside the OS2 category. OS2 is billed as a 70-pound effective weight.

I live in Tallahassee, Florida. I shipped a 60cm frame (in a frame box from Nashbar that just fit the frame) to Covina, California. The cost from UPS? $63.35, including insurance for $400. Without the extra insurance, the price drops to $61.75. Shipping to Austin, TX (about half-way across the US) cuts the cost again by approximately half, reducing the OS2 package to $34.92. An OS1 package is $19.52.

These are the calculations that I've used in my shipping. They're higher than heck if you can't get under that stupid OS2 boundary into the cheaper oversize-range. You're obviously doing so if you can ship for flat rates around $30.

It appears that bike and frame boxes are right on the edge between OS1 and OS2 categories. I you're careful about cutting down boxes (or if you ship frames less than 60cm c-to-c), you might be able to sneak into the OS1 category. OS2 will almost DOUBLE your shipping charges. This is what caught me; I had to fit the frame into a large-enough box, but I didn't pay close enough attention to the measurements to get under the more-expensive category.

Thanks for the links.

Cornbread

I guess you are right too. The auction language is contradictory.

"Shipping:

All shipping charges to be paid by the buyer, which may include duty, customs, and/or brokerage fees for international customers that are additional fees you pay when you receive the item in your country (Canada is a great example). "

but then she says

"All orders are shipped UPS Ground or USPS. For shipping costs use shipping calculator below to determine shipping and handling for the United States. The shipping calculator adds the packaging fee in its total for you."

Tricky spot. You hate to get unfair negative feedback but I definitely think you have an argument against the $11. The seller shouldn't use the shipping calculator if she can't live with the rates it gives. In the end, I think you are screwed either way. Unless, you can find something on eBay that supports the shipping calculator as being fair and accuarate. Good luck.

samp02

powerseller making a shipping mistake in price....no way would I pay the extra...