Best frame material /configuration for climbing?
10-25-05, 06:42 PM
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Best frame material /configuration for climbing?
What is the popular frame material from climbing? Steel, Aluminum, Carbon, or does it really matter? Advantages of each?
Also, do climbers like smaller frames than say a touring or crit bike for rigidity?
Also, do climbers like smaller frames than say a touring or crit bike for rigidity?
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10-25-05, 06:46 PM
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Climbing you want something light and very stiff. Scandium, is a good choice, along with cf and aluminum. Steel bikes usually don't make the best climbers, as it tends to flex a little more, and absorb more vibration. Scandium is super lightweight, but I have heard from a few, that it rides like a washboard.
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10-25-05, 06:57 PM
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If you're thinking of a climbing frame, I'd suggest remember the wheels too. I like em stiff, especially for standing climbing. If the frame is stiff but the wheels are mushy, it won't work well. I think it's best to consider the frame in conjunction with a wheelset too.
10-25-05, 06:59 PM
#4
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I ride Scandium and it's nothing like riding my gramma's old washboard. 
That said - Scandium is ultralight and stiff, yet forgiving when compared to conventional aluminum. From my own experience, I can tell you it makes a great climbing bike.
I can also tell you that if you match it up with the wrong set of wheels - like I did with the AC 350's - then yes, it may ride like a washboard on the descents. In other words, great going uphill, lousy coming down.
Switching the wheels to some Mike Garcia's, which are about 230 grams heavier for the set, seems to make a huge difference.
55/Rad
That said - Scandium is ultralight and stiff, yet forgiving when compared to conventional aluminum. From my own experience, I can tell you it makes a great climbing bike.
I can also tell you that if you match it up with the wrong set of wheels - like I did with the AC 350's - then yes, it may ride like a washboard on the descents. In other words, great going uphill, lousy coming down.
Switching the wheels to some Mike Garcia's, which are about 230 grams heavier for the set, seems to make a huge difference.
55/Rad
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10-25-05, 07:17 PM
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Anyone ride a magnesium frame?
10-25-05, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 55/Rad
I ride Scandium and it's nothing like riding my gramma's old washboard.
That said - Scandium is ultralight and stiff, yet forgiving when compared to conventional aluminum. From my own experience, I can tell you it makes a great climbing bike.
I can also tell you that if you match it up with the wrong set of wheels - like I did with the AC 350's - then yes, it may ride like a washboard on the descents. In other words, great going uphill, lousy coming down.
Switching the wheels to some Mike Garcia's, which are about 230 grams heavier for the set, seems to make a huge difference.
55/Rad
That said - Scandium is ultralight and stiff, yet forgiving when compared to conventional aluminum. From my own experience, I can tell you it makes a great climbing bike.
I can also tell you that if you match it up with the wrong set of wheels - like I did with the AC 350's - then yes, it may ride like a washboard on the descents. In other words, great going uphill, lousy coming down.
Switching the wheels to some Mike Garcia's, which are about 230 grams heavier for the set, seems to make a huge difference.
55/Rad
I know Salsa does.
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10-25-05, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 55/Rad
I ride Scandium and it's nothing like riding my gramma's old washboard.
That said - Scandium is ultralight and stiff, yet forgiving when compared to conventional aluminum. From my own experience, I can tell you it makes a great climbing bike.
I can also tell you that if you match it up with the wrong set of wheels - like I did with the AC 350's - then yes, it may ride like a washboard on the descents. In other words, great going uphill, lousy coming down.
Switching the wheels to some Mike Garcia's, which are about 230 grams heavier for the set, seems to make a huge difference.
55/Rad
That said - Scandium is ultralight and stiff, yet forgiving when compared to conventional aluminum. From my own experience, I can tell you it makes a great climbing bike.
I can also tell you that if you match it up with the wrong set of wheels - like I did with the AC 350's - then yes, it may ride like a washboard on the descents. In other words, great going uphill, lousy coming down.
Switching the wheels to some Mike Garcia's, which are about 230 grams heavier for the set, seems to make a huge difference.
55/Rad
10-25-05, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 55/Rad
I ride Scandium and it's nothing like riding my gramma's old washboard.
That said - Scandium is ultralight and stiff, yet forgiving when compared to conventional aluminum. From my own experience, I can tell you it makes a great climbing bike.
I can also tell you that if you match it up with the wrong set of wheels - like I did with the AC 350's - then yes, it may ride like a washboard on the descents. In other words, great going uphill, lousy coming down.
Switching the wheels to some Mike Garcia's, which are about 230 grams heavier for the set, seems to make a huge difference.
55/Rad
That said - Scandium is ultralight and stiff, yet forgiving when compared to conventional aluminum. From my own experience, I can tell you it makes a great climbing bike.
I can also tell you that if you match it up with the wrong set of wheels - like I did with the AC 350's - then yes, it may ride like a washboard on the descents. In other words, great going uphill, lousy coming down.
Switching the wheels to some Mike Garcia's, which are about 230 grams heavier for the set, seems to make a huge difference.
55/Rad
10-25-05, 08:50 PM
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I'd say invest in light wheels before a lighter frame. If you have the budget to buy a climbing specific frame, just get some ultra light wheels for the bike you have. Throw some Zipp Z3's or Z4's on your current bike and I bet you'll knock a solid 2-3 pounds of purely rotational weight off the bike. That would make more sense than a lightweight frame and a heavier, flexier wheelset. Of course, I live in a dream world where I have a perfect bike for every possible scenario. 
10-25-05, 08:57 PM
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Sprinting? Or is it climbing? 165's? Or is it 180's? Lugged? Not lugged? Same size as Cipo? Or now same size as Lance? 55 big ring, or Jan's gears? Does it matter which material? No. Any top end racing frame is going to work very well for an ALL AROUND ROAD BIKE as long as it fits YOU and YOUR anatomy. After that, you're still responsible for the engine and finding good, knowledgable, strong, and fast people to train with. The latter is what you don't seem to like to talk about much. Guess it's not as fun as gear, but MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more important. Until you figure that out, keep riding what you have. It's plenty.
10-25-05, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sincitycycler
Who makes a scandium frame? I know Salsa does.
I know Salsa does.
10-25-05, 09:12 PM
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10-25-05, 09:24 PM
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10-25-05, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by puddin' legs
Sprinting? Or is it climbing? 165's? Or is it 180's? Lugged? Not lugged? Same size as Cipo? Or now same size as Lance? 55 big ring, or Jan's gears? Does it matter which material? No. Any top end racing frame is going to work very well for an ALL AROUND ROAD BIKE as long as it fits YOU and YOUR anatomy. After that, you're still responsible for the engine and finding good, knowledgable, strong, and fast people to train with. The latter is what you don't seem to like to talk about much. Guess it's not as fun as gear, but MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more important. Until you figure that out, keep riding what you have. It's plenty.
The latter is what you don't seem to like to talk about much
. I make gains in plateaus, but who among us doesn't like to experiment and tweak their equipment from time to time?
If you don't want to be a gearhead, take up running!
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10-25-05, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by puddin' legs
Sprinting? Or is it climbing? 165's? Or is it 180's? Lugged? Not lugged? Same size as Cipo? Or now same size as Lance? 55 big ring, or Jan's gears? Does it matter which material? No. Any top end racing frame is going to work very well for an ALL AROUND ROAD BIKE as long as it fits YOU and YOUR anatomy. After that, you're still responsible for the engine and finding good, knowledgable, strong, and fast people to train with. The latter is what you don't seem to like to talk about much. Guess it's not as fun as gear, but MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more important. Until you figure that out, keep riding what you have. It's plenty.
lol.....piss funny.
10-25-05, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by puddin' legs
Sprinting? Or is it climbing? 165's? Or is it 180's? Lugged? Not lugged? Same size as Cipo? Or now same size as Lance? 55 big ring, or Jan's gears? Does it matter which material? No. Any top end racing frame is going to work very well for an ALL AROUND ROAD BIKE as long as it fits YOU and YOUR anatomy. After that, you're still responsible for the engine and finding good, knowledgable, strong, and fast people to train with. The latter is what you don't seem to like to talk about much. Guess it's not as fun as gear, but MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more important. Until you figure that out, keep riding what you have. It's plenty.
They have made their complaints in spectacular but indirect fashion; they have complained that they do most of the riding while arrogant, obnoxious older, less proficient posers, as they have referred to them, have the high end bikes.
Since many people can't afford the high end frames, as you referred to them, it does become important what material a bike is made from, as important as the engine that pedals the frame uphill. As most of us know, a less expensive aluminum frame is far easier to get up a hill than a less expensive steel frame. Inexpensive titanium doesn't exist, and good carbon frames are often more expensive than aluminum ones.
10-25-05, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sincitycycler
Who makes a scandium frame? I know Salsa does.
I know Salsa does.
10-25-05, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by trayer350
However, some forum members have complained for months that they can't afford top end racing frames, as you put it.
They have made their complaints in spectacular but indirect fashion; they have complained that they do most of the riding while arrogant, obnoxious older, less proficient posers, as they have referred to them, have the high end bikes.
Since many people can't afford the high end frames, as you referred to them, it does become important what material a bike is made from, as important as the engine that pedals the frame uphill. As most of us know, a less expensive aluminum frame is far easier to get up a hill than a less expensive steel frame. Inexpensive titanium doesn't exist, and good carbon frames are often more expensive than aluminum ones.
They have made their complaints in spectacular but indirect fashion; they have complained that they do most of the riding while arrogant, obnoxious older, less proficient posers, as they have referred to them, have the high end bikes.
Since many people can't afford the high end frames, as you referred to them, it does become important what material a bike is made from, as important as the engine that pedals the frame uphill. As most of us know, a less expensive aluminum frame is far easier to get up a hill than a less expensive steel frame. Inexpensive titanium doesn't exist, and good carbon frames are often more expensive than aluminum ones.
Well to answer your question, from previous posts, it appears that Sin is looking to spend about $3k.
This time of year, there are many fantastic deals on high end road frames that might be one or two model years old if you shop around. There are complete bikes and demos that are great deals. High end does not mean paying retail. Awhile back, Colorado cyclist was selling Gios compact framesets for around $600...would it be slower than a Dogma? Nope, not at the amateur level. You can find very good bikes in a wide range of prices and materials that can all be competitive given a good wheelset. You might not get your choice of color, but that's about it. Wrenchscience has Pegoretti Fina Stampa framesets for $1300. With 105, you could build up both a training and race wheelset and be capable of winning anything. (A number of years ago, we (the local LBS) used to put together a great deal for local juniors: a GT Al frameset, all 105, and a nice set of wheels...32h open4 cd type rims and sell it at cost plus 10...it was a great bike for less than half the price of an SLX Merckx w/Chorus).
Priorities: Engine, frame, wheels, shoes, components.
Hope that clarifies where I'm coming from. And no, I don't think that I could be very well included in catagory of "arrogant, obnoxious older, less proficient posers". Older maybe, but proficient enough, and not arrogant. Apologies if I came off that way.
Last edited by puddin' legs; 10-25-05 at 11:25 PM.
10-25-05, 11:15 PM
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Mmmm.....Gios Compact dedaccai Kelme team-issue......molto molto bella.
10-26-05, 12:51 AM
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55/Rad:
You ride scandium...ever crashed it? If so, how did things turn out?
You ride scandium...ever crashed it? If so, how did things turn out?
10-26-05, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Sincitycycler
Who makes a scandium frame? I know Salsa does.
I know Salsa does.https://www.bianchiusa.com/1444.html
10-26-05, 03:19 AM
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Who makes a scandium frame? I know Salsa does.
You ride scandium...ever crashed it? If so, how did things turn out?
10-26-05, 07:56 AM
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Heck, you are already dropping Litespeeds riding that Sarthe, isn't that good enough for you?
Orbea has a new CF frame called the Opal. Stiffer than the Onix or the Orca. Very light. Should get you up the hills faster, also beat you to death on anything but virgin pavement. Probably best suited for crits.
Orbea's Arin frame is all Alu(maybe even has Sc in it), weighs 990g. Very stiff, very light. Another good climbing, boneshaking frame.
So how do you reconcile your need to climb hills with your need for a steel bike?
Orbea has a new CF frame called the Opal. Stiffer than the Onix or the Orca. Very light. Should get you up the hills faster, also beat you to death on anything but virgin pavement. Probably best suited for crits.
Orbea's Arin frame is all Alu(maybe even has Sc in it), weighs 990g. Very stiff, very light. Another good climbing, boneshaking frame.
So how do you reconcile your need to climb hills with your need for a steel bike?
