Idioteque

Found this on the bike science website recently posted

"Why would you spend $1000 to $4000 or more on a nice bike so you can go fast but only spend $200 on slow wheels like Mavic Open Pros? A $500 bike with $500 aero wheels is going be faster than a $4000 bike with standard wheels. Certainly, the Open Pros are good to have as training wheels, but if you're doing any racing or just want to go faster on the big weekend rides, aero wheels are the way to go. Curiously, a number of people are hesitant to get aero wheels (especially the more exotic ones) because they look too disco. Well, for those of you who fall into that category, that's your choice and it's fine, but you won't be going as fast as you could be."

I have mavic cosmos wheels on my bike, and i was looking to upgrade at some point anyway

I'm a pretty light guy (140-150) so i could probably go for really light american classics sprint 350. The article made me rethink that however, what do you guys think?

Oh and i will need them for training (well always have mavic cosmos) but mainly racing.

What are some of the drawbacks of aerodynamic wheels?

Thank you

alraicercsu

the weight of the rim is another important factor, if you are doing crits aero isn't a big deal as much as having low rotating mass. Road races and TT's are were the more aero wheel pays off.

chuck731

Aerowheels are fine if what you want is the ability to slowly build up your speed over long, flat, straight runs. You can probably work up to a higher maximum speed with aerowheels in these situations than with standard spoke wheels.

But for normal riding and competitions involving sprints, rapid accelerations and going uphill, they greater weight and larger moment of inertia probably negates any aerodynamic advantages.

dekalbSTEEL

A slightly different take, at least as far as TT's go:

Believe it or not, the best TT upgrade is the helmet. This came from the "Liberty Seguros: Winds Of Change" article from PezCycling News. "The drag difference between a vented road helmet and an aero-helmet is 2-4 times larger than the difference between a good aero-wheelset and a 32-spoked wheelset."

Idioteque

I will be mainly doing road races.

Hmm, the guy in the article is pretty confident about his statement and does have alot of very interesting info.
I can see the aerodynamics of the wheel helping at all times, im not sure though.
I think we need a theoretical physicist.

genericbikedude

If nobody is sponsoring you, anything beyond handbuilt 2x or 3x is silly, IMHO.

Idioteque

Well there are some spinergy wheels on ebay for 400-500.. or even less if you get lucky.

dekalbSTEEL

Here's a pic from a recent road race I entered, doesn't look to be a whole lotta super aero wheels there..

slvoid

Light AND aerodynamic?
You need a pair of lightweights.

CPcyclist

Have you raced yet? If so do you find yourself off the front in small groups?

In Crits it is more important that the wheels be stiff then aero as most of the race is in a pack with occasional sprint. Aero plays more in RR's and TT's as you become more likely to find yourself in the wind and are not making as main turns/acceleration as in a crit.

It seem from most of what I have read over the years the numbers put most riders on 30-38mm rim sections as the deeper you go the more weight you have to wind up in the rim. Deeper section like the popular Zipp 404's (50mm rim section) are good for longer solo events or if you are planing on being in a long break with few riders.

I have and will most likely be racing again this year with either my Chorus/OP laced with revolution or my set of Neutrons both are considered low profile rims 24mm or less.

Just remember hubs are just as important a part of the wheel as the rim. put a Zipp 440 (404's rim) on a department store hub and it wont be worth the price of the rim.

CPcyclist

Where was that race? It looks familiar to me. May just be the standard Midwest scenery.

NJWheelBuilder

I don't buy the aero argument. That only works if you have pro-level legs and happen to never ride with a cross wind.

EURO

I think it's over 16mph that aerodynamics becomes important. Do you need to be a pro to ride at 17mph?


Never mind light AND aerodynamic AND stiff.

bbattle

From what's been posted before, the aero wheels might shave a few seconds off your time per hour on the bike. More important for top riders competing for big bucks over long distances.

As the only wind I don't get is a tailwind, I'm more interested in light, stiff wheels that can handle the rough roads and maybe get me up these mountains a bit easier.

Somebody mentioned hubs. By reading the marketing stuff, how can you tell what makes a hub good? Or by reading forums, how can you tell which hub is good? The only hub I've not seen knocked is Chris King's, except for people complaining about the price.

shokhead

The bike will be faster if you pedal faster. Areo works sometimes and lightweight works all the time.

Cycling Giraffe

I know a couple of people who have had problems with Zipp hubs. King hubs are supposed to be bombproof, but I have spoken to at least one wheelbuilder who considers them "overbuilt" for the road, and have heard of others complaining about seal drag. On the main topic, I have a pair of Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLs, and they are relatively heavy (probably in the same ballpark, weightwise, as the Mavic Cosmos), but they feel stiff and, subjectively, feel easier to hold at speeds over 20 mph than my other wheels (a very nice pair of DT rim/Sapim CX-Ray spoke/White hub handbuilts and an old pair -- the blue ones -- of Mavic Cosmos).

StanSeven

Aero wheels make more than a few seconds on your time per hour on the bike. You might want to go back and see some of the more quantatuve data mentioned by some of the expert and reliable sources here.

As far as hubs, most that cost a reasonable amount are good. Properly maintained hubs last a long, long time. You can't buy anything better than Chris King's and they likely will last as long as you ever want hubs to last. But how many people want to be riding the same hubs 20 years from now.

As far as differences, there are minor things like some being easier to service than others. Someone could argue about the quality of bearings and things like that. But that's literally splitting hairs.

gcasillo

There's always somebody voicing this opinion, and it usually comes across grouchy, but it's pretty much true. Sure, everybody wants to look the part, but if you ride, a solid set of 32 or 36 spoke wheels laced 3X is pretty indestructible. Don't have to be aero either. Mavic Open Pros with 32 or 36 double butted spokes are cheap and reliable. That fits the bill for everything but racing and posing, right?

ggg300

some one call 53-11

bbattle

Aero wheel article

"It was discovered that discs can have upwards of 40 W less resistance than a standard 32-spoke box rim wheel. This translates to as much as a 1 mph speed advantage at 25 mph and as much as 2 mph at speeds above 30. In racing, 2 mph equates to roughly a category upgrade! (e.g. Cat 3 to Cat 2) Or in terms of club rides, aero wheels may enable a weekend rider to stay in contact with the group during fast paced rides when they might otherwise find themselves dropped off the back. This is a significant difference which one shouldn’t ignore. More importantly, is the comparison between standard 32-spoke box rim wheels and deep aero models. Generally, it seems that one might expect as much as a 30-40 watt reduction in force required to sustain 27 mph. Assuming most serious CCB club cyclists are able to produce an average power output of 200-300 watts, the thought of having a 10-20% power advantage is certainly worth exploring. Many skeptics are quick to point out the fact that the cyclist’s body is responsible for 90% of the wind resistance encountered: so what difference will reducing wheel drag make? Well, it makes quite a difference when you consider that all cyclists are required to push their bodies through the air, so the 90% figure actually becomes a constant in the equation, and the remaining 10% which can be controlled to some degree becomes significant. Think of this in terms of retaining these watts in your own personal energy savings account.

another one

"Measurable differences in the aerodynamic quality of wheels appear at a speed of 30 km/h, but it becomes really interesting above 40 km/h. The difference between the best and the weakest wheels in the test amounts to about 7 Watt (for a single wheel) at a speed of 40 km/h. At the same performance level an athlete is thus able to increase his speed by 0.8 km/h—which, in a time trial of around one hour length at an average of 300 Watt, allows him to reach the finish line about 66 seconds sooner. At a speed of 50 km/h and with moderate crosswind, the considerable amount of 48 Watt is necessary to counter the air resistance of a single standard wheel with a square rim. A moderately aerodynamic wheel such as Mavic’s Ksyrium SL necessitates 32 Watt; the best wheels in this test (Zipp 808) require only 17 Watt."
zipp.com

zero

Aerodynamics are ALWAYS a factor. the faster you go, they get exponentially more significant.
Another thing I think I should mention is that many of the stiffer wheels out there are aero, and thats no coincidence. The profile of an aero wheel is naturally more stiff than the same design but with a shallower rim. Same goes for strength. I've heard that a zipp 404 rim, alone, unbuilt, no spokes, hub, nothin, can take over a half a ton of weight without deformation. And they're not heavy either.

djbowen1

I see a few pairs of Aero's in this one
https://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jonwge...f8.jpg&.src=ph

AnthonyG

Where's the real world examples.

Didn't Rasmussen (sp?) get blown off the road in the last TT with his disc wheels?

Lance won the TT with spoked wheels didn't he?

Regards, Anthony

djbowen1

Lance was smart enough to change the wheel when he knew about the winds.

alraicercsu

mostly the rims shown are shimanos and kysriums which are in the 25mm area. Kysriums and those in that category are very good overall wheels. As far ass TTs go just having aero bars drops 1.5 min on a 20km TT, wheels is another 1 or so and the helmet is about 2. If there is a cross wind you won't want a disk wheel or super deep dish wheels.