What is the difference between titanium and carbon fiber? I'm looking to buy a frame and was wondering what the principal differences are from a riding perspective. I currently ride aluminum and like the responsiveness...

Carbon fiber has been described as having a passive road feel while having wonderful road shock absorbing characteristics. Titanium has been described as having a lively feel similar to that of steel, while still retaining a supple responsive ride.

Titanium is a metal.
Carbon fibre is a composite.

Everybody's a comedian....

Yeah,maybe so,but at least he is more correct than your generalizations.

I love the feel of Ti. and dont' fully trust riding on a plastic material yet.. that's me though. If you do get a Ti bike you will get alot of ohhh and ahhhs.. :-D from me atleast

OK, so your buying a bike. It will be Ti or carbon fiber... Does his obvious statements clue you into making any kind of educated decision on which frame to buy?!?

I want to know the overall ride characteristics of these materials compared to steel, aluminum, and each other.

Cipher is essentially correct. Carbon fibre although being laminated cloth can be made much lighter than steel, ti or aluminum. Each have their own feel, obviously. i would advise if ossible to ride bikes, made from the two materials you are interested and decide for yourself.
Cipher don't try to argue with D* Alex his above answer is typicalI doubt if he has any experience with ti and carbon or he could have answered the actual question. Also pokey is the same way, rarely any good advice just sarcasm.

Since ti is expensive and you are considering the purchase of this expensive material, I would suggest you visit the Seven Cycles website and use their link to talk to them about the characteristics of the different tubes. They are very knowledgeable, and wonderful people to talk with. No, you don't have to purchase a Seven, but they will tell you as much about titanium as anyone else can. Here is their website:

SevenCycles.com

You are looking at two exotic and expensive materials, both of which are light and make great bike frames. My roadie is carbon, my MTB is a titanium hardtail.

Carbon fiber frames are sometimes described as feeling "dead" I suppose it depends on the lay-up. My carbon frame is stiff. It eats road shock for lunch. Carbon fiber can be molded into wonderful swoopy shapes and makes pretty frames. When carbon fiber frames break, they fail catastrophically which worries some folks. Most of the worry is needless.

Titanium is livlier feeling. Under a heavy rider it might get downright whippy, though I guess that 6/4 titanium is stiffer. A well-made titanium frame can be a lifetime investment...you can leave it to your kids. The ride quality is magical and I love it for my mountain bike.

What do you want in a frame? Either material may meet your needs. You won't go far wrong with either. Try to ride them both if you can...

...but, no, you can't ride my bikes!

It isn't the frigin material,it's how it's built.Either could suitable or unsuitable depending on your size, weight, riding style and what you are looking for. The only generalization that is worth .02 is that CF is less resonate than Ti and therefore is less transmissive of small vibrations. Ti and steel are about equally resonate and Al is by far the most resonate.That's physical properties.....How dat Hunter?? Having a hard time with sarcasm Hunter? Get use to it.It's my game.Don't like what I say? Don't read it. Fair enough? Having ridden them all, I prefer steel.That's subjective.Best advice,go ride some and decide for yourself. You can find vast differences even in the same material, from one Brand to another.

You really can't make any generalisations, other than the ones which I made (of course, nobody here seems to understand sarcasm..), and one other:
Carbon Fibre is not as durable. Moisture, UV radiation, and chemical cleaners will all degrade CF. Also, CF doesn't take being hit well, either.
As far as how they ride-well, that depends on how it is built.
Of course, all these drawbacks may not amount to much, depending on the type of riding you do. CF frames tend to be quite light, so maybe CF is for you. On the other hand, if you are going to be riding every day, in all types of weather, and leaving it chained to an outdoor rack, maybe not...

All forementioned points are well taken... However;

Food for thought, an alien but related product (sailplanes; i.e. those aircraft used in soaring) share a common bond with the bicycle. Great need for material with the maximum strength to weight ratio that has excellent resistance to failure. The progression of materials of choice for sailplanes has been initially wood/fabric; then Aluminum; and now fiberglass composites dominate.

Sometimes it is a good thing to step back and view issues from afar, least the forest becomes obscure for all the trees. Think carefully about this, Darwinian Section while only theory is now widely accepted as a valid outcome of competition for species (materials?) survival.

Cheers;

Actually look at lots of different areas and look at the materials used. Planes have been using Al for a long long time, that last flight you took on vacation/business was made from a whole lot of Al. Military planes have been using Ti for 40+ years. Ever take a pleasure boat ride on a smaller boat (say under 80ft), then it was made out of composite, most likely just plain old fiberglass. Ever race a sail/motor boat, the higher end models are made out of carbon fiber. Take a peek at the mast on a racing sailboat, they'll be carbon fiber as well. All of the above place incredible amounts of stress on it's materials, in all kinds of enviroments (including wet ones with lots of UV exposure) with minimal cons to them (past the monetary value).

So yes, beyond all the advice above about riding examples of each, also educate yourself about the pro's and con's of each from information that isn't biased one way or the other.

Andrew

Back to the original question, (and a step away from trying to show off what I know that no one else does), I'll give you my subjective opinion of ti v. carbon.

Typically, carbon will give you a stiffer and more responsive ride when it comes to your pedalling input. It's a little more like aluminum in that respect, but the carbon bikes I've ridden do not feel as lively as a good aluminum frame.

Ti, on the other hand, tends to be a softer ride, more akin to steel than aluminum. If you prefer the feel of aluminum, you might be somewhat more drawn to carbon. However, in fairness to ti builders around the world, a good enough ti frame will give you the ride you want and more character than carbon.

As for comparing the durability of the two in bike frames, it's basically a draw depending on the manufacturer. Builders have gotten to a point where they can build a bike from either material that will last quite a while. Remember, though, that a high end bike of any material is typically not built to be a good 10 year bike, though they may be capable of just such a life span. If you're like me, you'll be replacing the frame in about 5 years anyway, and lifespan isn't that important. If you want a lifetime bike, I would look carefully at the frame builder's warranty information and talk to some people that already ride that bike to see how long they've had it, how it's held up, etc.

You're set either way. flyefisher, why get away from aluminum, if you don't mind my asking?

That's a boat load of generaliaities too.Ever heard of different Ti alloys and tubing diameters ,butting and shaping.Ti can be fabricated to ride almost any way one wants, and CF can be manipulated even more. It's how it's built and rider size and weight too.Does not anyone get that part? Aluminum can and has been made too wimpy.Generalities don't fly and do the reader a disservice.And, for the part about a high end bike not being a 10 year bike.....WHAT A LOAD!! Why don't you check with Grant Petersen at Rivendell, or Richard Sachs, among many others on that one bub.

Aluminum does not absorb shock well. But I love the responsiveness it has. But some Ti bikes now are made with oval tubes such as the Colnago OvalMaster and supposedly are pretty responsive....

BWAHAHAHA! And you know what you're talking about so you can on every post because, of course it's so obvious that you know better?

flye fisher....did you ever say what you weigh and what size you ride and what your riding intent is? Don't dismiss a Litespeed uptimate or Vortex either among onters.

RacerX... Just always wound too tite? or maybe too much caffeine late in the day?

What???

I own a 2001 Litespeed Tuscany (titanium) with a carbon fork. Great ride! :thumbup:

If it isn't out of your price range I'd recommend a look at their 2003 line of bikes. They are combining carbon and titanium to make a bike that rides really well.
The Siena has carbon seat stays and a carbon fork. The information on their site makes it sound like an awesome bike.

Lemond similarly is coming out with a Ti/Carbon frame like the Siena, Fork and rear triangle will be carbon. His Tete de Course. Bucu $$$$.

I'm not sure that you'll get the same ride out of ti that you do aluminum, regardless. But, what kind of bike are you on now? I've definately ridden aluminum bikes that are flexy as hell. I would go for a metal bike because they tend to have more feel to them, as I mentioned a little before. Some carbon bikes do ride pretty well, but a fan of aluminum will probably lean towards staying in the metal family.

It has also been pointed out that the frame you get should reflect the type of riding you're doing. Road racing, crits, charity rides, etc. Factor those in.

And pokey, bite me. Don't be a hypocrite. Generalities coming from you are still generalities, "bub".