KrisPistofferson

^I'm sure if you post enough wingnut trolls in this thread, someone's bound to take the bait.

burbankbiker

Well, in our case - as bikers - you have to read the study more carefully. Check out the first couple lines:


We're not riding 100 meters (330 feet) from the roadside. We're riding in the road. So how much of that 1800% increase they measure in cars is still present for people breathing "ambient" air 1 meter from the car and not 100 meters? That's the study we would all benefit from knowing.

1955

Sorry, I just kind of got on a roll.

If I knew this would stay apolicical I wouldn't care, but these type of posts always bring out the anti human anything nuts. So you see I think you guys are just as crazy as you think I am.

Have a nice day.

Ralph

budster

That's a good point. I looked it up and your hunch is right on:

https://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...20/ai_86230645


An excellent point. I don't know if this article addresses it specifically, but it contains a great deal of useful (and kinda scary) information about the effects of auto exhaust pollution on cyclists:

https://www.messmedia.org/messville/smog.html

Maybe we do all need Darth Vader masks after all.

donrhummy

Wow, what a catch - great researching!

So we're back where we started (in the thread) - how do we protect ourselves? Will one of those masks that neutropenic people (and the cyclists in China) wear stop most of the exhaust? (they're less obtrusive, less suffocating and less scary looking than gas masks) What size are the bad particles?

donrhummy

Yikes! That is scary! And the particles (the PM2.5) are so friggen' small, that I don't know what we could use to stop them aside from a full-on military-grade gas mask. (Of course I don't understand the physics well enough to guarantee that)

donrhummy

Does anyone know of any studies that show what the pollution levels are (on average) in the morning hours (say 5-8) versus afternoon, etc?

donrhummy

Are there any solutions?

budster

From the first article I linked:https://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...20/ai_86230645

So for solutions, I'd say the best would be to avoid

• Heavily-travelled roads
• Hot days
• Smoggy days
• 11 am - sunset

I realize it's not possible to avoid these things in all cases, but do the best you can. I think it's a good idea to check ozone forecasts to know when it's bad; one place to do this would be Weather Underground. If you do have to cycle in high ozone, take it as easy as possible. It seems likely that the less hard you're breathing, the less damage you'll do to your lungs. If you can, consider moving someplace with fewer "orange" and "yellow" days.

If you're really worried, try searching the forums for a thread on this from a few months ago. Actually, it was started a couple of years ago, if I recall correctly, and revived recently. Pollution masks were discussed. The most intelligent posts were from a safety professional who recommended a specific type of mask. Unfortunately, you have to be fitted for it by someone who knows what they're doing, and it's got a filter which has to be replaced regularly. And it's hot. And it fogs up (he tried it and decided it wasn't worth the hassle).

In the end, I think this is less of an issue than it seems. I feel better when I cycle than when I don't, even in summer. I've had burning lungs a few times, but it has always passed. I think as long as you don't have to be out there all day, even on the worst days (like bike messengers do), you'll be fine. That's just an intuitive belief, but I haven't seen any science that directly contradicts it, or that offers a compelling case against it.

Doggus

next time don't eat the cheese.

Rancid

just found this:
https://news.yahoo.com/s/space/200601...lksthanstreets

cmh

Biodeisel production on a large enough scale to meet a significant portion of US energy needs just isn't going to happen. This study at Cornell University found that it takes more than a gallon of gas to produce a gallon of bio-deisel. My feeling is that the small scale biodeisel manufacturing from used french fry oil is energy effecient, but I haven't seen any data on this.

https://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/...ostly.ssl.html

cmh

cooker

Are you really saying you'd prefer unbreathable air? Sincere question.

budster

Well, that's timely!


So we're only exposed to 1/12 as much as someone in a taxi or bus, or 1/5 as much as someone in a car.

Of course, how much are we breathing? Remember the earlier study which pointed out we're breathing about 20 times as much air as someone sitting still.

SamHouston

One thing you can do is utilize a messenger service that utilizes bikes/walkers properly if it is available to you. The City of Toronto estimates that 250 - 300 bikers/walkers take 2500 cars/light trucks out of circulation in their downtown area each day.

Nevermind that the range at many companies is North York to the north, Vic Park in the east and Parkside in the west. The real numbers are probably a little better than the city estimates.

Use them for any small task that you may have done yourself or sent a coworker out for, doesn't matter what. It's only expensive when you forget time is money.

donrhummy

Good point. And 20 x 5000 would be 100,000 - the same as those taxi passengers!

donrhummy

Wow, that's weird - you're actually remembering it exactly the opposite and incorrectly.

Here's the thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...pollution+mask

And here's what he said:
So actually he WILL continue using it and it WAS worth the hassle!

I believe this is the basic respirator he used: https://www.approvedgasmasks.com/north-mask.htm

thewalrus

I've seen these for sale at a local shop. I don't think it would be needed here, but if I ever went cycling in a large Chinese city, I'd take one along. Here's Shanghai on a "bad air" day:

budster

You're so right! I guess it goes to show: we remember what we want to believe. Scary.

Well, to make up for it, here's that North respirator for $11.50: https://www.safetysaves.com/safety_we...?productid=464

If you use it, please tell us how it works out.

What I may have remembered was this post, the 2nd to last one: But I wonder if he really did use a similar setup as John Ratliff, because he linked to this mask: https://www.safmed.com/store/product58.html

...which is definitely not the North 5500 respirator, nor the N100 HEPA filter:
https://www.safetysaves.com/safety_we...3-pr-1029.html

As for me, for now I'm just going to continue living in the middle of nowhere.

donrhummy

Yeah, and in addition, I'd be willing to bet he didn't follow all the instructions for how to ensure proper fit.

*sigh* I wish, but my wife refuses to not be near/in a city.

worker4youth

How different is cycling compared to driving with your windows down? I can't imagine a whole lot...except the volume of air respirated.

budster

My girlfriend is also fond of major cities. We're currently working through that.

Where do y'all live?

cooker

Despite the presumed concentration of pollutants, people in cities tend to be healthier than people in rural areas.

galen_52657

Euro must be a limey...

budster

That's true.

I think it's true mainly because urban people walk and bike more, which more than offsets the negative effects of higher pollution levels. I live in a small city (25k people), which I suppose is technically "urban," but without most of the drawbacks of large cities (including pollution). Admittedly, we are also without most metropolitan amenities -- but it's pretty easy to get around here sans car.