markwebb

I think the LBS was spot-on. I'd like to see the market swing back to offering 80% of bike frames made of steel - and lugged, too !!!! Way better quality than most of the aluminum crap out there nowadays. But it won't because aluminum is a less expensive price point for the manufacturers.

Fox Farm

This weekend, for fun, I built up my old Cannondale RC3.0 frame for use as a commuting, shorter rides, etc. It is a 1989 frame. Some people have said that aluminum frames, and Cannondale in particular, are prone to failure and cracking. If that were the case, would Cannondale have remained in business for 25 plus years? Would so many other manufactures have gone to aluminum (after so many of they poo pooed it for many years)?

I would take the comments that the squid in the bike shop gave you as, "one data point."

I do, how ever, notice that the aluminum frame, my 16 year old Cannondale, rides a bit more harshly than does my 5 year old Merlin titanium, but I expected that difference. It would be intersting to compair that to the new Six13 Cannondale frame which has seat stays that flex when squeezed with your hand, something that my old Cad3.0 frame certainly does not do.

For the dollar, if you are looking for light weight and stiffness, you can't beat aluminum. But, as some posts here attest, there are compromises in comfort. They will, however, not fail in 3 - 5 years, or at least not a name - quality frame.

Retro Grouch 

Assume for a moment that they were initially swayed by advertising or fashion, would you continue to ride a bike that you hated or would you find something else or maybe even find an alternate way to spend your time? If your frame, regardless of material, broke or "softened" after a couple of years would you buy a replacement that's just like it or would you prefer to take your chances with something else?

The Carpenter

I ride an AL frame (Trek) that's ten years old, no problems. Trek and some of the other manufacturers have a lifetime warranty on their frames. No way would they offer that if they were going to be replacing them every two to five years.

.:Jimbo:.

I prefer aluminum just because i'm scared for carbon fiber, with some of the crappy streets ive traveled here in NY, im talkin pot holes that can swollow both me and my bike whole, i doubt carbon would last even a year without inident. Additionally, i'm more worried about something cracking, or snaping in half on me, while in transit, then just a little fatigued aluminum due to the racking up of age/ mileage. Sure it beats me up before i event get to the park, but once i get there, i can simply sense every ounce of energy i put into that bike, that bike eats it up, and spits it all on the tarmac, and thats the kind of edge im looking for in a road bike. If i wanted a comfy, supple ride, i'd get myself a full suspension mountain bike, with the seatpost shox and the huge tires, to absorb even the worst road imperfections so i wouldn't have to.

jock

I think we made it perfectly clear that there was a difference and you would have to pay through the nose for it. There are better frames in the same price bracket.

Quit yer stoic patriotism tugger

jock

And for everyone who rides "An x year old aluminium blah brand bike with nary a problem" try this:

put your foot on the bottom bracket
look lovingly at your glistening aluminium steed
push her hard, lay into her with that foot, make that biatch hurt some
flexed a bit, eh?

That doesn't happen with brand new Al frames if they're built properly.

Flame away, knowing that ALL my bikes are Aluminium

KrisPistofferson

I've always thought that maybe the myth of an Al frame only lasting 2-3 years started because that's about how long it took hardcore MTBers to crack them back in the Nineties. For less grueling applications, like road cycling, the lifespan is quite a good bit longer. Speaking personally, I dig both steel and aluminum, for different reasons, (this is a hilly city, and I prefer aluminum for a lot of climbing,) and I think I'd like CF if I could ever afford it. Ride watcha got.

invincibleone

Ditto.
They are the original masters of Aluminum.

jeff williams

"Alu will last as long as steel."
Bull****. Unless you mean parked in your wet garage. Flex\stressed -no way.

$0.00/Gal

Your LBS is full of isht and they're trying to up sell you. Find anoher shop.

baj32161

Oh boy...this again?

Find a new shop (this one is full of crap and wouldn't get a dime out of me). Test ride some bikes and buy what YOU like. As you can see by this thread...everyone is an expert, and everyone is full of sh*t, (if you get my meaning ) . Nobody in here can give you any concrete advice on what is going to feel better under YOUR butt......THAT only you can decide. If you are worrying about frame failure on a good quality bike from any of the major mfrs, I think you are worrying needlessly. Any of the road bikes carried by most good bike shops will have frames that can survive much more stress than you will likely be able to dish out, and last far longer than 2-3 years, no matter what the material.

Cheers,

Brian

baj32161

Well in a purely metallurigcal way you may be right. But speaking in "real" bike terms, without dishing out a whole lot of abuse, this will more often than not, not be the case. It will certainly last as long as the rider cares to ride it. And please don't chime in with "well I know some guy whose (alu, cf steel, or ti) frame cracked when...," or some other argument. We all know that with any given material, failure can happen. But I would be willing to wager that the much greater majority of bike frames out there will not fail and will last as long as the rider cares to own it. And why do some of you guys have to get so hostile and act like idiots when it comes to someone else buying THEIR bike? You will not get a medal if they decide on steel, cf, alu, or ti, or whatever just because you suggested it.

By the way, I ride an alu frame and have no comfort issues whatsoever. And with a lifetime frame warranty, I am not worried about frame failure. It tells me that the mfr has confidence in their frame. So do I.

'Cheers,

Brian
[IMG][/IMG]

DannoXYZ 

And how many aluminium frames have you snapped? How about some real-world standardized testing to failure under controlled laboratory conditions: EFBe frame-fatigue test.

Take a look the top 3 longest-lasting frames.... 2 aluminium ones and 1 carbon. Survived the entire 200,000 stress-cycles without any problems. That same load applied to other frames snapped them well before that number was even achieved. Guess what the bottom 3 frames were made of? STEEL! They didn't even last half as long as the aluminum ones... Actually probably even worse than that because if they had tested those aluminium frames to failure, it might be 5-8x longer than the steel ones that broke!

The kinds of comments coming from the shop-employee that the OP heard is EXACTLY the reason so many shops are in financial trouble, competent and knowlegable help is hard to find...

53-11_alltheway

I like aluminum bikes. Nice and tough.

crazyb

Just a question on this. What will an aluminum frame cost to produce vs a steel or Ti or Cf frame(talking about mass produced frames, not custom boutique stuff)? What percentage of the total cost of the bike is the frame against all of the components that they buy from other sources. Do you know for a fact that Trek or Giant pay less for a cheap crappy aluminum frame than they would for a cheap crappy gaspipe steel frame,lugged or not?

roadwarrior

There you go with those pesky facts again...

I love this place. I read these threads and laugh and laugh...

and your last comment is exactly correct and it drives bike companies nuts.

but in the bike business, and in most other businesses, you get in people exactly what you pay for.

I read these comments and wonder why all these "experts" who know so much more than the people in the shop are not in the bike business???

DocRay

Sorry Jeff, you're wrong. There's 20 years of Al history to prove it. Even in Mtbs.
Even if one choses very expensive steel customs, the tubes are now so thin that the frame would unlikely survive a crash. You can pinch some Reynolds tubing between your fingers.

The whole steel is real nonsense and the luddite Rivendell crap is only an issue in the US, the rest of the world, especially Europe, with a long history of tradition, left steel years ago.

Regardless, I've never bought a frame with intention to crash, or keep it forever.

DocRay

It's more expensive to manufacture aluminum than steel. The alloys can cost more than steel, they use expensive hydraulic extrusion machines and the alloy needs more careful prep before welding than steel, and welding is best done by robots.

The LBS employee was likely not misinformed, he was following his bosses orders and pushing stock and bike with highest profit margin.

# steel bikes at Paris-Roubaix, the bike breaker race, is still 0. BMC even ditches CF for Al for P-R. But what do pros know?

Danno's link are facts, but conservatives hate to bring facts into arguments. Amazing how powerful the idiot-to-idiot phone is.

531Aussie

I like the EFBe stuff, and I often use it to support what I might be saying, but the test has its critics.
https://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/opi...rame-test.html
https://www.anvilbikes.com/story.php?news_ID=9&catID=3

Also, that's a pretty old list of results -- this one is more recent and periodically updated, but failed frames aren't published
https://www.efbe.de/testergebnisse/rennwiege/enindex.php

I'm not sure if the criticisms of the EFBe test are justified, but, either way, the ubiquity of the Cannondales on the list of "passed" frames is impressive. If someone's looking to spend reasonable money on alu, the "'Dales" would have to be considered. I mean, I there's a choice, why not buy a frame that's on the EFBe list rather than one that ain't?!

james_robert

Ive put on close to around 25 000km on my devinci all aluminum bike, and it rides the same as the day i bought it. I havent noticed any cracks, fatigue, nothing, no change. Personally i think your lbs is just searching for a few $hundred

PsychoCourier

I've destroyed 2 alu frames working as a courier, both within 11 month's of getting them. I admit to riding heavily from time to time, and can cover an average of 50 miles every day. Aluminium is not for me, I would much rather have a nice Steel rig than an Ally one now for the road..

Portis

Maybe the answers are generalized because the question was. Go back and re-read the Thread Subject.

SpongeDad

I have a Trek 1500 (Aluminum) and a Merlin Agilis (Titanium). The Merlin is more comfortable on long rides and it doesn't bounce me around as much as the Trek when I hit bad pavement or ruts. If your current frame is well made, it probably has a ride analogous to titanium. That said, the Trek was less than 1/3 the price, and I didn't mind it on 100km rides.

For $1200, you could probably find a nice steel bike, with the added benefit of being able to walk around saying things like "Steel is real."

Also, what is your current frame? You might be better off upgrading specific components, like the wheels, at far less than $1200 and end up with a pretty good bike. Other comfort improving upgrades: CF fork; CF seatpost.

deadray

There better than normal for sure.