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We're going to yell at you.

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

We're going to yell at you.

Old 06-01-06, 11:18 AM
  #26  
Smoothie104
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76
I have no problem with this, unlike many of you I accept and even embrace that Road Racing is elitist. By its very nature it has to be. If you dont like it then go take up frisbee golf, or some other candy a** sport. The point of this thread is if you go out on hard core training rides dont expect a polite explanation of everything you are doing wrong. If that is your expectation you will come away feeling pissed or picked on, expect that if you make a mistake you will hear about it immediatly. I don't see what is wrong with that??

Another way to look at it, Riders are blunt and to the point, efficiency in language.
Hell Yeah, and I agree with Event Services as well.
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Old 06-01-06, 11:21 AM
  #27  
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Umm, it's called a training ride for a reason. One would think that might include some training somewhere in there. Some people may be there to work on cranking it up to 400 watts, others might be there to work on riding very fast in a group. If you don't want anyone to interfere with 'your' training then ride ny yourself. It's not a race, you didn't pay to be there.
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Old 06-01-06, 11:24 AM
  #28  
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Sounds like fun. I wanna join in.
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Old 06-01-06, 11:28 AM
  #29  
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I'll ignore all the ad hominems and other crap on this thread and stick with what I think the spirit of the OP was, which is to offer solid, reliable advice on how to ride with the big boys. It's about more than showing up in good physical conditioning. Every one of those tips is not only excellent, but they're all necessary for and prerequisite to playing with the fastest guys and gals out there. It's not ego or elitism, it's about safety.

Your ride sounds exactly like our Wednesday Night Worlds, which draws not only Cat. 1 and Cat. 2 racers, but professionals (if riding in the TdG and Tour of California counts as professional) as well. The rules are pretty much the same, and the reaction for transgressions can be similar, although those of us in Ohio tend to think we comport ourselves with more decorum than you Michiganers....

I'll offer another one for the list: It your team is riding the local training race and some of your teammates get disconnected during one of the extended 30+mph sessions, don't bring your surviving teammates to the front, take over the entire lane, and then proceed to slow the pace down into the 20s to give your lost guys a chance to reconnect. You will definitely get yelled at.
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Old 06-01-06, 11:38 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76
Hey, if thats how you want to deal with it, no problem. But ride like a dumb a** and you're still gonna get yelled at.
i'm just ****in' around. i wouldn't hear him caterwaulin' cause i'd be so far ahead of his ass. i think the dude's more show than go.
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Old 06-01-06, 11:45 AM
  #31  
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If you’re getting enough lower level riders on Tuesday, you could always try to create a B group for them - and also let them know about the Wednesday training/learning rides.

You could also get matching jerseys, and tell the noobs it's a closed team ride. It’s easier to keep people out when you look like a team. You don't see anyone trying to suck onto a T-Mobile paceline...

Last edited by LA_Rider; 06-01-06 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 06-01-06, 11:52 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by EventServices
I know riders who will actually grab you by the jersey and physically remove you from the line.
If anyone ever did that to me then they better be ready to "get it on" because they'd catch a backfist to the grill in a heartbeat.
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Old 06-01-06, 11:59 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by brunop
i'm just ****in' around. i wouldn't hear him caterwaulin' cause i'd be so far ahead of his ass. i think the dude's more show than go.
See, you would be messin up the paceline, thats what he's talkin about.
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Old 06-01-06, 12:06 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by DnvrFox
You could always wear pink ribbons tied around your top tubes. Anyone without a pink ribbon would be excluded.
Thanks for mocking me - now go back to your crusty old man forum.
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Old 06-01-06, 12:07 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by EventServices
Our Tuesday night ride is fast and furious, and strangely has no egos. It's all the fast guys in the metro-Detroit area. We rotate a double echelon at about 30mph. We sprint at pre-determined points. We regroup. We chit chat. Then we fire it up again. We have sprinters and lead-outs. But again, no egos.

And every week, we get new riders jumping into our line and trying to roll with us. That's fine. Go for it. But you should be prepared to meet a very steep learning curve.
Some fail to realize what we're doing, and when they make mistakes, we yell.

You will get yelled at for the following mistakes:
- If you're on the front, do NOT pull the line through the bumpiest section of pavement. GO AROUND IT! There is no need to trash our wheels and bodies.
- If you're on the front, don't ride on the very edge of the pavement. Give some room for the echelon behind you.
- If you're on the front, you MUST pedal down the hills. Do not coast.
- If the line is hammering and you want out, you must hammer until you are on the front - even if it kills you - and then pull off. Do not pull out of the middle of the line. That's dangerous, and it creates a gap that the rider behind you must cover. You will get yelled at.
- When it's your turn to pull through and take your turn on the front, DO NOT accelerate. That's bad.
- When it's your turn to pull off the front, flick your elbow and move smoothly to the side. Nothing abrupt.

Please do not call us elitist. And don't ask us to 'dumb down' our training ride.
I've been participating in hard core rides like this for 20 years. And I'd have to strongly disagree with two points:

• If you can't pull through, you pull OFF. This 'pull through even if it kills you' nonsense is absurd, simply because if the rider who fails to pull through is unable to - well then all the frantic flailing around trying to catch the 30mph wheel in front of him - the one that he didn't have enough snot to reach in the first place - is only going to make the inevitable gap that is created LARGER. And if you want to 'Yell' at the offender, that's your adolescent perogative. Get a clue. If that dude pulls OFF he's done you a favor by keeping the gap 20 yards instead of 50. And if you're too weak to close a 20-50 yard gap maybe YOU'RE the one who has no business being on that ride. Nobody likes it when the guy in front of them lets a gap open up. But that is strictly YOUR problem. Hey, the poor guy who just allowed it to happen is about to get DROPPED all together. Look at it that way. Isn't that penalty enough?

You 'must hammer until you're at the front'. Yeah, OK. What do you do to those who don't? SHOOT them? Bring a big clip cowboy. As always, Titanium bullets please.

• You're advising people in a 30mph paceline to make sudden moves around bumpy pavement? The last time some idiot did that our local 30mph ride a couple of months ago he nearly took DOWN the 5 guys behind him. If you can avoid pavement smoothly, predictably, you do. If you can't, you ride OVER it and HOLD YOUR LINE. Spare us the whining about your $1500 Zipps. Get a trueing stand.

God, that's the most elitist crap I've ever read.

ELITIST ELITIST ELITIST.

Zieg Heil mein kleine Road Nazi : ).
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Old 06-01-06, 02:51 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by FormerBMX'er
If anyone ever did that to me then they better be ready to "get it on" because they'd catch a backfist to the grill in a heartbeat.
Yep, I'd knock the snot out of anyone who tried that stunt with me.
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Old 06-01-06, 03:04 PM
  #37  
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I did the CU Buffs group ride when I lived in Colorado at the tender age of 14. I can still clearly hear it in my head - "Learn how to ride or get out of the way". I was told this ONCE. It's never happened since.

Everybody need to learn sometime, but that doesn't mean go out and try to hang with the local cheetahs. If you can't hang with a group without blowing yourself up every time you take a pull, you should move to the back.

If someone says anything to you, it's for your own good!
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Old 06-01-06, 03:04 PM
  #38  
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sounds reasonable to me


Originally Posted by EventServices
Our Tuesday night ride is fast and furious, and strangely has no egos. It's all the fast guys in the metro-Detroit area. We rotate a double echelon at about 30mph. We sprint at pre-determined points. We regroup. We chit chat. Then we fire it up again. We have sprinters and lead-outs. But again, no egos.

And every week, we get new riders jumping into our line and trying to roll with us. That's fine. Go for it. But you should be prepared to meet a very steep learning curve.
Some fail to realize what we're doing, and when they make mistakes, we yell.

You will get yelled at for the following mistakes:
- If you're on the front, do NOT pull the line through the bumpiest section of pavement. GO AROUND IT! There is no need to trash our wheels and bodies.
- If you're on the front, don't ride on the very edge of the pavement. Give some room for the echelon behind you.
- If you're on the front, you MUST pedal down the hills. Do not coast.
- If the line is hammering and you want out, you must hammer until you are on the front - even if it kills you - and then pull off. Do not pull out of the middle of the line. That's dangerous, and it creates a gap that the rider behind you must cover. You will get yelled at.
- When it's your turn to pull through and take your turn on the front, DO NOT accelerate. That's bad.
- When it's your turn to pull off the front, flick your elbow and move smoothly to the side. Nothing abrupt.

Please do not call us elitist. And don't ask us to 'dumb down' our training ride.
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Old 06-01-06, 03:44 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by EventServices

I know riders who will actually grab you by the jersey and physically remove you from the line. That's how important it is to us to NOT have to deal with you.
Any person who did that to me would be on the receiving end of a Look cleat to the hip, just before being pushed off the road.
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Old 06-01-06, 03:48 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by GuitarWizard
Any person who did that to me would be on the receiving end of a Look cleat to the hip, just before being pushed off the road.
so you would join a paceline you have no business being in, make mistakes that endanger the lives of a group of guys and then kick and push someone because they want you out the group? yeah, that makes sense.
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Old 06-01-06, 04:20 PM
  #41  
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Bad day at work fellas?

ES makes a good point that his group is out to make the most out of their ride... and that they are very concerend about each other's safety.

However everyone does have to learn sometime and yelling/pulling on someone's jersey is dangerous.... For those that didn't bother to read what ES posted (post #11)... he said that Weds. were rides to teach newbs the proper paceline etiquette. bike racing is a lot more then just a fast motor... If you don't have the experience then you are going to endagner yourself and 20 others.

Patencad, I wouldn't call them Elitest... but I do agree with pulling off and "holding the line"...... the worst thing someone can do at 30 mph is all of a sudden swerve ESPECIALLY in a DOUBLE paceline.
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Old 06-01-06, 04:21 PM
  #42  
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I don't see what the beef is. ES didn't get his Cat 2 license (if memory serves) out of a Cracker Jack box.
I will suggest that anything more than a gentle tug on the jersey isn't a safe idea and neither is having someone chug through until they can pull off. I freakin' hate the accordian effect. Have the nuts to take a bow and pull off immediately--same as a mech failure. Just my $.02
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Old 06-01-06, 04:26 PM
  #43  
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Remember when riding your bike was just fun?
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Old 06-01-06, 04:36 PM
  #44  
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Screw you and your fun, hipcycler, that's Friday's ride.

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Old 06-01-06, 04:36 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by timmhaan
so you would join a paceline you have no business being in, make mistakes that endanger the lives of a group of guys and then kick and push someone because they want you out the group? yeah, that makes sense.
First off, I wouldn't join a group ride that was above my ability/fitness level. But...I can be just as ignorant as the next person.....if they want to use physical force to "remove me" rather than saying "get lost, you don't belong here"....they're getting the same in return, in spades.

Go roll your eyes at someone else.
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Old 06-01-06, 04:42 PM
  #46  
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Dr. Pete....is that a tongue depresser in your pocket or are you just happy to be riding?
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Old 06-01-06, 04:46 PM
  #47  
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None of the other rules matter to me at all. I was disqualified when he mentioned the number 30.
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Old 06-01-06, 04:49 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by webist
None of the other rules matter to me at all. I was disqualified when he mentioned the number 30.
I think that would disqualify about 96% of people (including me) on these forums.
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Old 06-01-06, 04:49 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Hipcycler
Dr. Pete....is that a tongue depresser in your pocket or are you just happy to be riding?
Just happy. Tongue depressors aren't allowed in the paceline.

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Old 06-01-06, 04:50 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by 55/Rad
People who don't have egos never feel the need to tell that to the world.
This simply cannot be repeated enough.

Given the frequency with which we see this kind of thread, started by the exact same OP, with the same claims ("it's not elitism, it's safety!"), it makes me wonder what's going on there in Rochester, MI. Must be an especially heavy concentration of newbies that are so dense and have so little regard for their own safety that they feel it necessary to try to join riders that are so far above their skill level that they should barely be able to see them flying by, let alone actually join in the paceline. From the sounds of it it's not any group I'd want to be with anyway
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