LandLuger

Harris Cyclery offers a custom 13-30 "touring" 9spd cassette that I know will work with an Ultegra RD. However this may help, a tough climb is just tough no matter what.

https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html#9

If you go for a triple chainring setup, you're probably going to want to change out the BB at the same time.

SpongeDad

The question is what you can sustain? The website I posted above gives projected cadences at various wattages vs time up the course. If you can spin at 80 rpm in 39/25 up a 10-12% grade (i.e., about 9.7mph) for 7 or so miles, good for you. I can't, but I don't think most pros can either.

So for a 1 to 2 hour ride up a hill, which is what Mt Washington is for GOOD riders, can you seriously spin at 50 rpm in a tall gear, or would you be better off at 70rpm? It's definitely the latter for me.

KevinF

Yes, 7.6 miles is the entire race.

As for sticking with a 53x39 and 12x27. Some guy by the name of Tyler Hamilton used a 39x26 low when he set the course record -- of 50 minutes and change. (It has since been lowered all the way to 49 minutes by some guy by the name of Tom Danielson). Another pro, Tim Johnson (who rode for Team Mercury at the time) tried with standard double gearing, and he couldn't get under 55 minutes. He also made some comment about being "damn glad to see the top" afterwards.

I have to know -- how long do these 10km climbs at 12% in Japan take you? The number of people who have ever climbed Mt. Washington in under an hour is a pretty small number. There's only two or three people a year who do it. Getting up Mt. Washington in under 80 minutes is considered a remarkable feat. I don't personally know anybody who's done it under 85 minutes, and that includes a couple cat 4 racers.

terrymorse 

7.6 miles at 12% will destroy your legs, if you have the wrong gearing.

More nonsense. Did Basso "downgrade" when he used a compact crankset at the Giro? Or did Heras "downgrade" when he used a triple at the Vuelta? I've said it before and I'll surely need to say it again: lower gears don't make you slower. It's an aerobic sport, not a muscle strength sport.

It's really a simple problem:

1. Determine how fast you will be going on the course.
2. Decide what type of cadence you legs can tolerate over that amount of time.
3. Pick the gears that let you use at leat that cadence.

NomadVW 

I've never claimed to be a racer, nor did my post above indicate that I was set to climb Mt Washington at a Tyler Hamilton pace. Nor would I imply that I can. I said I routinely climb long 8-10km 10-12% grades with nothing less than a 12x25. I really didn't intend to debate my ability or lack thereof.

For those who prefer me to be more humble, I'll rephrase my original post as follows:

Anyway, if the OP intended to compete at the Tyler Hamilton level, I'm assuming he'd have somewhere else to go to get his info about gearing. However, we're talking about changing out the gearing for a single race for which the OP uses his current gearing to do considerable climbing already - by his own submission. If he was set to win the race, he'd probably have established some time ago what gearing he intended to use and would be using it by now.

Did Basso switch the compact out for just the climb of one race for less than 2 hours of climbing, or did he use it for a tour? Oh wait, the Mt Washington climb isn't a tour. Oh... the Vuelta isn't a 7.6 mile climb event. Oh wait, Basso was chasing a tour victory.

Anyway, I stand by my opinion that the OP would do well enough without swapping drivetrain components out if he chooses not to. If he switches to a compact, MTB triple, or some other gear combination that suits him - have at it.

As far as my opinion that compact crank is overrated is "nonsense" goes, then I'd say ask Tyler Hamilton. He's the one that did it in 39x26. What a fool.

castaway

Re: the hillclimb races in Japan...I just went through my old copies of Cycle Sports (Japan) and found out that the hillclimb with the steepest average grade is The Mount Fuji International race: 11.8 km / 1200 meter ascent / 10.1% average grade (with the steepest section at 22%). Course record is 45:40 (or at least it was according to May 2005 data). The other major hillclimb races average about 7.2% over 22km with record times around 55 minutes (give or take). The really incredible thing about these races is the number of participants. One race (Norikura) drew 3925 riders! How many compete at Mt. Washington?

Bob Ross

How much heavier is a triple crank than a compact double? (I suppose I could look this up on the Shimano website, but I figured just asking would be quicker.)

terrymorse 

He's not the fool. When a rider can climb at the pace that Tyler Hamilton can, he can get away with a 39/26 gearing on a 12% grade. For the 99%+ of the rest of us, that gearing would make us slower.

As I wrote before:
1. figure out how fast you can climb,
2. pick a comfortable cadence over that distance,
3. choose the gearing to match that speed and cadence.

The record time for Mt. Washington is 49:24, set by Tom Danielson. That's an average speed of 8.75 mph. If he used a 39/26, his cadence was 75. That's a very reasonable cadence, and a good gearing choice—for Tom Danielson. But for just about everyone else, those gears would have us mashing all the way to the top.

KevinF

True, weight matters to a certain degree on a hillclimb style event. However, you're comparing the weight of a store-bought triple to that of a store-bought compact, and that's generally not what you see at Mt. Washington. I'd say about half the riders take all but the smallest chainrings completely off. Seriously. Compacts, triples -- it all gets stripped down to one gear up front, at which point "single-ized" triples are probably lighter then "single-ized" compacts. Heck, people take their brakes off! They'll run 650 sized wheels, which their brakes couldn't possibly reach, so -- lose the brakes. It's all uphill -- what do you need brakes for? If you try to coast at 5mph up a 12% grade you slow down mighty fast.

It's pretty interesting just to see the bikes. It's actually funny to watch the start, because lots of the bikes have been re-geared to have something along the lines of a 24x12 high gear. The first 100 yards or so actually are flat. The starting gun is shot off, and you have this scene of riders spinning ridiculously low "high" gears trying to cross the flat.

'nother

Around 200 grams (just under 1/2 lb), depending on which triple compared to which compact. In many cases there's not even that much difference (though I'm sure someone can come up with some more extreme examples if they dig around).

The weight argument is not a really a sound one for deciding on double vs. triple -- most people's body weight fluctuates more than that weight difference.

XC99TF00

I believe they limit the field to 600 people, and you have to be driven back down. I'm not sure if its a lottery or first come first serve, but Iam pretty sure about the 600 rider limit.

KevinF

Yep, there's a 600 person limit. First come, first serve. It sells out within hours! I'm not really sure what happened. In 2000 (the first year I did it), the entry fee was $100 and I didn't bother signing up until sometime in July. I knew I was going to do it, I just didn't bother being official until the last few weeks. No problems getting in.

In 2001, I basically got lucky. I wanted to do it again and I visited their website around noon-time on the first day of registration to print out the registration form, get their address, etc. And 400 some people had already signed up! (You can sign up on-line as well). Yikes! By the time I finished entering my info and clicking the "register me !" button it was nearing 500 people.

In 2002, they upped their registration fee to $300. (Yes, three hundred bucks for 7.6 miles). The registration fee came down with time (i.e., first month was $300, second month was $200), but 500 some slots had sold out at the $300 rate. Within minutes of them dropping the fee to $200, the remaining slots were gone.

In 2003 (and to this day) it's $300. It sells out almost immediately. I wouldn't mind doing it again, but there's something about $300 for 7.6 miles and 1.5 hours of suffering that makes me back off. What happened between 2000 and 2001 to suddenly make the event so popular?

NW NJ Biker

In order to get to a 1:1 ratio on a road bike with a triple, is it as easy as swapping the small chainring with a 24t X 74mm mountain chainring along with a 12-25 cassette, or is there more to it? In the case of a climb such as this, where there is no chance of using anything but the small chainring how important is the front derailleur?

'nother

I was thinking that too after seeing KevinF's response. If one is going to be such a weight weenie that he's concerned about compact double vs triple why wouldn't he just go with a single small on the front, remove the FD, remove the front shifter, etc., etc.. That ought to trim off a whole pound

iansir

Without the FD you may have problems with the chain falling off, especially if you go over a big bump. Its worth keeping or use a chain watcher thing.

ElJamoquio

A 39X27 would require you to go 9.0 mph up 12% (if you're at your 'optimum' cadence of 80 rpm). That works out to about 450 watts, as was mentioned previously. There's just no way he's going to do this for an hour.

A 33 front ring would mean 7.6 mph and about 380 watts, still undoable for me...

I'd go for the triple...

jschen

And keep in mind that this is an average grade. There's steeper portions!

DigitalRJH

Not to mention that you usually are dealing with deteriorating weather as you go higher, with gusts up to and sometimes over 50MPH. Some people get blown off their bikes. Bottom line, unless you are a pro, no way you can do that climb in a 53/39 in any kind of a decent time, and for some, they may not finish with that combo.