I'm going to come right out and say it...
07-28-06, 08:11 AM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The real question isn't "did the test come back with XYZ results?" I'm sure they did. I'm sure the B sample results will come back with the same result if tested in the same manner. The real question is "why?"
Many uninformed people are saying he tested positive for drugs. He didn't. He had an unusual imbalance in naturally produced hormones. I tend to believe that for whatever reason - maybe the dehydration the day before, maybe just the physcial strain of doing the breakaway - his body reacted in a way that caused the results that turned up.
Many uninformed people are saying he tested positive for drugs. He didn't. He had an unusual imbalance in naturally produced hormones. I tend to believe that for whatever reason - maybe the dehydration the day before, maybe just the physcial strain of doing the breakaway - his body reacted in a way that caused the results that turned up.
07-28-06, 08:12 AM
#27
Quarq shill
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,962
Bikes: 08 Felt F4, 05 Fuji Team SL, 08 Planet X Stealth, 10 Kona Jake the Snake, 03 Giant OCR flat bar.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by Hipcycler
Landis did nothing wrong.
I believe him.
It was some sort of fluke in the testing or the combination of meds/beer/Floyd's body.
Am I the only one?
I believe him.
It was some sort of fluke in the testing or the combination of meds/beer/Floyd's body.
Am I the only one?
07-28-06, 08:13 AM
#28
Race to train
Join Date: May 2005
Location: suffering on the back
Posts: 3,115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
did anyone notice flandis when he got off the bike after the stage? He looks almost enraged and yelling at some of the press. I only guessed that after 5 passes and the heat, he just wanted a little air and not to be swarmed but maybe some one could interpret that as a guy going form an intense high of victory to a drastic mood swing(the ABC after school special of a steroid user)
07-28-06, 08:15 AM
#29
Senior Member
Well, I'm not going to SAY he's innocent, but I'm not going to SAY he's guilty, either. I'm holding out for the "B" sample.
Secretly, just between you, me, and no one else, I HOPE he's innocent and the testosterone in the "A" sample is either naturally occuring or a test fluke.
Secretly, just between you, me, and no one else, I HOPE he's innocent and the testosterone in the "A" sample is either naturally occuring or a test fluke.
__________________
https://www.pedalroom.com/members/iamtim
https://www.pedalroom.com/members/iamtim
07-28-06, 08:15 AM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
From the articles I linked to:
https://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,206001,00.html
https://www.canada.com/topics/sports/...71d3d5&k=36460
Carlos R. Hamilton Jr., MD, professor of medicine and an endocrinologist at University of Texas Health Sciences Center in Houston, and a member of the health, medical, and research committee of the World Anti-Doping Agency, is also reserving his judgment.
"The fact that it is strictly a testosterone level does not mean it came from outside of the body, it could have been produced internally," he says. "It's a perfectly normal occurring hormone."
He says that there is a large variation in what they consider normal on this test and no one knows exactly how Landis scored. "Were his results within normal limits or just out of sight?" he asks.
The bottom line is that the information was released too prematurely, he says. "Wait until we get the final answers. If he cheated, it will be recognized; if he did not, this does him a great disservice."
"The fact that it is strictly a testosterone level does not mean it came from outside of the body, it could have been produced internally," he says. "It's a perfectly normal occurring hormone."
He says that there is a large variation in what they consider normal on this test and no one knows exactly how Landis scored. "Were his results within normal limits or just out of sight?" he asks.
The bottom line is that the information was released too prematurely, he says. "Wait until we get the final answers. If he cheated, it will be recognized; if he did not, this does him a great disservice."
Landis told SI.com Thursday that an elevated level of testosterone is different from a positive test and that this is a fairly common problem among pro cyclists. Landis has retained Spanish doctor Luis Hernandez, who has aided other riders' appeals of similar test results. Landis and ESPN cycling analyst John Eustice both noted no cyclist has ever lost an appeal of a test for elevated testosterone levels.
07-28-06, 08:16 AM
#31
Hey let's ride.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 2,002
Bikes: Torelli road bike, Tsunami tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
"WADA, UCI, Phonak and the French Lab have all acted very unprofessionally and unethically in this situation. This story should not have gotten out until all the samples were tested."
I too can't believe how unethical this lab has behaved. In the US, if you fail to guard patient/sample confidentiality you can go to prison. Its a HIPPA violation. I am the director of a clinical laboratory and know all too well the value of confidentialty. What's going on with this lab. Do they have someone from the local media on hand just in case they have a positive?
I too can't believe how unethical this lab has behaved. In the US, if you fail to guard patient/sample confidentiality you can go to prison. Its a HIPPA violation. I am the director of a clinical laboratory and know all too well the value of confidentialty. What's going on with this lab. Do they have someone from the local media on hand just in case they have a positive?
07-28-06, 08:21 AM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Forest IL
Posts: 1,422
Bikes: Giant OCR 2, Flyte SRS 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I am going to put in a call to Jack Bauer at CTU and have them look into this.
Kenal0
Kenal0
07-28-06, 08:22 AM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Cross-Post (sorry)
As far as I'm concerned, there is no "Floyd Landis doping scandal." This is just another case of the French trying to belittle the accomplishments of an American cyclist. They tried to disrupt Floyd in the earlier TT stage by forcing him (at the last minute) to change the angle of his aero bars, resulting in a late start and broken bars causing further delay. Outcome? Floyd turns in the best overall ride and finishes second.
When THAT didn't work and Floyd had the audacity to win the Tour, they concocted the recent FAKE TEST RESULTS. Floyd is innocent, the French hate him just as much as they do Lance, so they are up to their old tricks again. Period. End of story.
If Dave Zabriskie or Levi Leipheimer (or any other American) wins next year, don't be surprised if it happens again.
*Unlike the UCI, I have edited this statement to say that I have no evidence to support my claims. They are only my opinion and may have no actual basis in the real world...*
When THAT didn't work and Floyd had the audacity to win the Tour, they concocted the recent FAKE TEST RESULTS. Floyd is innocent, the French hate him just as much as they do Lance, so they are up to their old tricks again. Period. End of story.
If Dave Zabriskie or Levi Leipheimer (or any other American) wins next year, don't be surprised if it happens again.
*Unlike the UCI, I have edited this statement to say that I have no evidence to support my claims. They are only my opinion and may have no actual basis in the real world...*
07-28-06, 08:24 AM
#34
Senior Citizen Discount
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 997
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
that's exactly how you know this testing isn't exactly independent 3rd party. how can results be released to the public or anyone else for that matter without the results of the second test.
that alone makes them lose any credibility in my eyes.
that alone makes them lose any credibility in my eyes.
07-28-06, 09:16 AM
#35
Unique Vintage Steel
Originally Posted by CyLowe97
Yeah, I want to believe, but at this point in my pro cycling fandom, I really almost don't care.
Does the UCI attempt to weed out all suspicion, or is the playing field already pretty level, since almost every rider has access to medical attention to keep them right under the line?
Is Floyd about to take a fall in the name of cleaner cycling? Perhaps.
But where is the outrage for the Astana/Wurth riders who were just this week cleared from Operacion Puerto? Those guys (and Vinokurov) all lost a shot to ride in the Tour. Where's the outrage? Where's the apology?
I don't believe any of them anymore. I just want to see them all suffer on the climbs and the cobbles.
Does the UCI attempt to weed out all suspicion, or is the playing field already pretty level, since almost every rider has access to medical attention to keep them right under the line?
Is Floyd about to take a fall in the name of cleaner cycling? Perhaps.
But where is the outrage for the Astana/Wurth riders who were just this week cleared from Operacion Puerto? Those guys (and Vinokurov) all lost a shot to ride in the Tour. Where's the outrage? Where's the apology?
I don't believe any of them anymore. I just want to see them all suffer on the climbs and the cobbles.
07-28-06, 09:32 AM
#36
It is fantastic.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The OC
Posts: 7,977
Bikes: 05 Specialized Allez Elite; 06 Fuji Team Pro
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by swyant
As far as I'm concerned, there is no "Floyd Landis doping scandal." This is just another case of the French trying to belittle the accomplishments of an American cyclist. They tried to disrupt Floyd in the earlier TT stage by forcing him (at the last minute) to change the angle of his aero bars, resulting in a late start and broken bars causing further delay. Outcome? Floyd turns in the best overall ride and finishes second.
When THAT didn't work and Floyd had the audacity to win the Tour, they concocted the recent FAKE TEST RESULTS. Floyd is innocent, the French hate him just as much as they do Lance, so they are up to their old tricks again. Period. End of story.
If Dave Zabriskie or Levi Leipheimer (or any other American) wins next year, don't be surprised if it happens again.
*Unlike the UCI, I have edited this statement to say that I have no evidence to support my claims. They are only my opinion and may have no actual basis in the real world...*
When THAT didn't work and Floyd had the audacity to win the Tour, they concocted the recent FAKE TEST RESULTS. Floyd is innocent, the French hate him just as much as they do Lance, so they are up to their old tricks again. Period. End of story.
If Dave Zabriskie or Levi Leipheimer (or any other American) wins next year, don't be surprised if it happens again.
*Unlike the UCI, I have edited this statement to say that I have no evidence to support my claims. They are only my opinion and may have no actual basis in the real world...*
07-28-06, 10:05 AM
#37
\||||||/
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: pdx
Posts: 1,360
Bikes: highly modified specialized crossroads and GT hybrid (really a [formerly] 12-speed bmx cruiser, made before 'hybrid' took on its current meaning), as yet unmodified redline 925, couple of other projects
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by baj32161
If the UCI, WADA and whoever else wanted to really clean this up they would set up a multi-national medical team...and labs, perhaps in somewhere like Japan, to ensure impartial testing. All teams and riders would be required to submit their samples to this lab. This lab would have no national interests in the results and a multi-national team would be better able to police itself.
i believe floyd.
07-28-06, 10:18 AM
#38
Just shy of 400W
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 766
Bikes: Cannondale System 6, Klein Palomino
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
even with roids... he is still an amazing athlete. I really dont care if he doped or not, prolly 50% of the other dudes there doped , and they didnt win.
__________________
2008 Cannondale System Six
2016 Pivot Mach 5.5
2008 Cannondale System Six
2016 Pivot Mach 5.5
07-28-06, 10:24 AM
#39
Whateverthehell
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: U.S.S.A.
Posts: 7,432
Bikes: '06 Blue Competition RC5AL w/ritchey pro fork, spinergy stealth PBO, etc.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by voltman
Does the boogeyman hide in your closet?
__________________
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci
07-28-06, 10:36 AM
#40
It is fantastic.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The OC
Posts: 7,977
Bikes: 05 Specialized Allez Elite; 06 Fuji Team Pro
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dog hair
07-28-06, 10:52 AM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Greensburg, PA
Posts: 1,203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I just don't understand how you can test for elevated test levels for just one day. If you are taking synthetic test, it would show up in previous / later tests.
07-28-06, 12:36 PM
#42
OMG! i'm a DURT gurl!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: HOT, sunny socal desert
Posts: 4,939
Bikes: 2007 specialized stumpjumper FSR expert, 2006 specialized ruby pro, 2004 specialized dolce elite, 2005 specialized hardrock
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
i'm with you...
unless or until they come out with some concrete evidence... he's innocent and a winner in my eyes!
i've been reading a lot (too much... waaaaaay too much covereage on this!) but it seems REALLY fishy to me! fishy on the part of the results.. the accusation... etc....
unless or until they come out with some concrete evidence... he's innocent and a winner in my eyes!
i've been reading a lot (too much... waaaaaay too much covereage on this!) but it seems REALLY fishy to me! fishy on the part of the results.. the accusation... etc....
__________________
OCP and PROUD!
"OCP is not just about attitude, it's a way of life!"
life's too short to ride a crummy bike..........
OCP and PROUD!"OCP is not just about attitude, it's a way of life!"
life's too short to ride a crummy bike..........
07-28-06, 02:23 PM
#44
Fueled by Scoobie Snacks!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Citrus County, Fl
Posts: 387
Bikes: 1983 Puch Odyssey, 2004 Giant OCR3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I am with you, innocent 'til proven guilty. Maybe I am a bit old fashioned, but when you accuse someone of doping, shouldn't you be able to say with some specificity exactly what drug caused the failed test? It just seems wrong to accuse someone and then stand back and expect them to prove something didn't happen. I would just love to hear from someone at WADA exactly which PED would give this test result. No smoking guns yet as far as I can see. Why the riders put up with this is beyond me.
07-28-06, 03:15 PM
#45
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,305
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1452 Post(s)
Liked 731 Times
in
374 Posts
From the Chicago Tribune: Another test, which analyzes carbon isotopes, provides much more definitive evidence that an athlete has used external testosterone, according to Don Catlin, director of the Olympic drug testing laboratory at UCLA.
The French newspaper L'Equipe reported in Friday's editions that the Olympic anti-doping lab in Paris that analyzed Landis' sample also performed the carbon isotope test and that it clearly showed the presence of external testosterone.
Now I understand the presumption of innocence, and I firmly believe none of this should have been public until confirmed. Nonetheless, I don't things are looking good for Landis right now.
The French newspaper L'Equipe reported in Friday's editions that the Olympic anti-doping lab in Paris that analyzed Landis' sample also performed the carbon isotope test and that it clearly showed the presence of external testosterone.
Now I understand the presumption of innocence, and I firmly believe none of this should have been public until confirmed. Nonetheless, I don't things are looking good for Landis right now.
07-28-06, 03:37 PM
#46
Señor Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,928
Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1492 Post(s)
Liked 1,096 Times
in
642 Posts
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
From the Chicago Tribune: Another test, which analyzes carbon isotopes, provides much more definitive evidence that an athlete has used external testosterone, according to Don Catlin, director of the Olympic drug testing laboratory at UCLA.
The French newspaper L'Equipe reported in Friday's editions that the Olympic anti-doping lab in Paris that analyzed Landis' sample also performed the carbon isotope test and that it clearly showed the presence of external testosterone.
Now I understand the presumption of innocence, and I firmly believe none of this should have been public until confirmed. Nonetheless, I don't things are looking good for Landis right now.
The French newspaper L'Equipe reported in Friday's editions that the Olympic anti-doping lab in Paris that analyzed Landis' sample also performed the carbon isotope test and that it clearly showed the presence of external testosterone.
Now I understand the presumption of innocence, and I firmly believe none of this should have been public until confirmed. Nonetheless, I don't things are looking good for Landis right now.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
In search of what to search for.
07-28-06, 04:09 PM
#47
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,305
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1452 Post(s)
Liked 731 Times
in
374 Posts
Originally Posted by USAZorro
Yes. But one does have to consider the source.
07-28-06, 04:30 PM
#48
Señor Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,928
Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1492 Post(s)
Liked 1,096 Times
in
642 Posts
We'll just have to wait and see. I'm still struggling with what could have been the motive for using it - if it turns out he did. Of course, motive may not be a consideration in whatever determination gets made.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
In search of what to search for.
07-28-06, 05:51 PM
#49
Whateverthehell
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: U.S.S.A.
Posts: 7,432
Bikes: '06 Blue Competition RC5AL w/ritchey pro fork, spinergy stealth PBO, etc.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
here's an interesting article from PEZ that compares his powertap numbers from stage 17 to is numbers from a training ride.
https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4223
https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4223
__________________
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci
07-28-06, 05:52 PM
#50
ride on !!!!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phoenix, Az.
Posts: 416
Bikes: Felt F2, Cannondale CAAD 8, Motobecane Immortal Force, Intense Uzzi Sl MTB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jimbud
Lets hope the French Lab that did the testing is willing to be on the up and up if Landis's B sample comes back clean.
__________________
LATER!!!!!!!!!
LATER!!!!!!!!!