TJHOO

Anybody used both of these tires?

998

Yes I have. Next question.

SaddleBags

Just the GP4000, thanks for asking.

SaddleBags

OK, I'll play nice......
The GP4000 are tough, fast and corner well. For me, the tread life is much more improved than the earlier version of the GP (3000).
Haven't experienced the attach/force combo to compare.

TJHOO

Looks like the 4000's have new puncture resistant technology that is not included in the Attack/Force combo.

TJHOO

What differences could you notice?

DocRay

I have used both.
The big difference is rolling resistence, the GP attacks are better.
Nothing corners better than Gp4000-this is a true race clincher, but they don't last long.

TJHOO

Wow, that's the 1st I've heard that the 4000's don't last long. I guess puncture resistance does not necessarily mean better overall durability. Anybody else had durability issues w/ 4000's?

998

I've tried both the Attack/Force and the 4000 and even a 4000 on the rear and an Attack on the front on my Tarmac Comp. I noticed from your post that you have a Tarmac. I tried the Attack/Force combo after the stock tires wore out. The Attack Force combo has low rolling resistance and is light. First time I rode with them I almost thought the rear was going to spin there was so much less resistance compared to the stock Specialized Mondos. Excellent traction too. The 22 in the front makes the front turn quicker but doesn't make it seem "twitchy". Very nice tires. However, don't expect long life out of them. I was seeing some noticeable wear on the rear at the 1,000 mile mark. Shortly after that point I had a run in with some debris on a wet road which put an end to the rear tire. I decided to give the 4000s a shot. Mistake. I know some people swear by 4000s and rant and rave about them, but even if they were free I wouldn't put another pair on my Tarmac. Durability? Well, the rear lasted all of about 250 miles before something went through that "super tough" "stronger than kevlar" vectran belt like it was wet paper. Traction? Not very confident. The compound seems to give good initial grip but the tire itself is so stiff and gives so little that the bike bounces off of imperfections in the road. Not something you feel too bad with the rear tire but I had no confidence whatsoever that the front would stay planted on the road if I was going around a corner and the road was anything less than glass smooth. Which brings us to ride quality. The 4000s will beat you down if you ride on anything other than smooth roads. Jarring is a good word. I took them off after about 250 miles. One other thing, and this could be particular to the Tarmac. The stiff jarring ride would transmit a lot of force up through the fork and make it feel like the fork was vibrating, if there was a series of imperfections (washboard like surface) this would get magnified and feel like the fork was being really stressed. I didn't get that feeling with the Attack/Force combo. It was very uncomfortable and unnerving. When the road was pretty rough it felt like a ton of stress on the fork. Strange feeling. My sister has a set of 4000s on her Trek and doesn't experience that. Could be the geometry of the Tarmac. Could be me being hyper sensitive. Either way my conclusion was 4000s and the Tarmac front end just don't get along. After I pulled off the 4000s I put a set of Vittoria Open Corsa KS on. Vastly superior to the Continentals in every way. Traction - Supior to both the Attack/Force Combo and the 4000. Handling - Vittoria's by a mile, like I said in the short time I rode the 4000s I was waiting to tuck the front. I trusted the Attack/Force combo, but the Vittorias are even better. Ride - absolutely no contest. The Vittorias are so vastly superior it isn't even close. If you ride on anything other than glass do yourself a favor and go with the Vittorias. Rolling resistance/speed - the Attack Force combo was perhaps a tiny bit better than the 4000s but the Vittorias are every bit as fast and once you get off perfectly smooth surfaces the Vittorias are faster than both the Attack Force combo or the 4000s since the Continentals are so harsh. Durability - I've put a little over 1,000 on the Vittorias so far without problem, seem to wear better than the Attack Force combo. So, to make a long story long, I wouldn't put 4000s on my Tarmac ever again. The Attack Force combo is nice but Vittoria Open Corsas are superior in every way.

Will G

I've got 1630 miles on a pair of GP4000s. The front tire still has the seam on the crown of the tire visible. The wear indicators on the back tire show about 1/3 to 1/4 remaining. 2 flats on the back, none on the front. I weigh 193 and run 115psi on the back, 100psi on the front.

CanyonChaser

I have been totally thrilled with my Conti/Force's and am going to install my second set tonight. Only one flat tire and I'm probably pretty close to 2000 miles on them.

But 998 (as in Ducati?) has me thinking I should have tried the Vittorias.

dp

998

Canyon Chaser, the 998 is in reference to my Ducati aka "my Italian mistress". When you burn through your current Attack Force combo give the Vittorias a try. I was going to stick with the Attack Force combo but my lbs didn't have any, plus I wanted to give the Vittorias a try. No regrets. The Attack Force combo is nice but the ride on the Vittorias is so so so much better. I really didn't realize how rough a ride the Continentals were until I rode the Vittorias.

TJHOO

Talked to 2 different online bike shops who both said:

Vittoria Open Corsa KS are/have:
-better traction than 4000; similar to 2's
-more likely to cut than 4000/2's
-overall little softer, but higher TPI than 4000/2
-less traction on wet surface than 4000
-as best I could tell, the rec was use 4000 or 2 as training tire and Vittoria as race tire
-sounds like the KS and the 2's are the most similar of these 3

From what I can tell from riding 4000 and 2's and listening to those who've ridden KS's:
4000: most cut resistant
KS: supple, low rolling resistance
2: similar to KS, cheaper

(2= Michelin ProRace2; 4000= GP 4000)

TJHOO

BTW, Vittoria Open Corsa KS seem hard to find (meaning a lot of places seem to be out of stock)

TJHOO

I'm having a hard time understanding why/how a tire (Vitt) that accepts a higher PSI (145 vs 115-120 for the Conti/Michi) can be more supple and have better traction. Perhaps softer compound? Any clarifying ideas?

ViperZ

The Vitt's have a higher thread count casing (290 TPI) which allows less rubber to be used in comprising the casing, this in theory allows the tire to deform and conform more to road irregularities, than a thicker, stiffer tire with a lower thread count. Subsequently the thinner casing yeilds the better road feel.


High TPI --------------------------------------Low TPI


The Traction is more determined by the formulation of the rubber compound. Vittorias are very soft, have a high traction, however wear very Quickly.

Conti has claimed a higher TPI (330 for the A/F combo), however that is a based on 2 plys, rather than the single ply like the Vittoria.

bigbossman 

Probikekit has the CX's and the KX's. Don't know what the difference is, but the TPI count is the same as the KS.

ViperZ

The CX have a more traditional file tread pattern, where the KX has a ribbed tread on the side designed for more grip in the wet. The KS is the slick version

R900

Viper,

I ordered some Vittoria EVO Open Corsa CX's for my new Bianchi. I looked at the Conti's, but wanted to stay Italian. Probikekit was out of the K's or I would have gone with a set of those. As for the Conti's the Attack/Force combo did look good.

John

laterider

with what you're saying here, your rear will be shot around 2500mi.

Is this what to normally expect from a rear tire?? just curious on the life expectancy of a tire. I'm using mondo pro's, can I expect more or less than this?

ViperZ

John, you will be amazed at the ride quality of the Vittoria Corsa CX. However they may not last long... depending on your roads and your riding weight. I ran one pair to about 900 Km before I got a rock puncture flat, then the next ride out a cut flat (Big Bang Blowout) that destroyed the one tire. However even before that blow out, the rear tire was starting to square off and feel very thin. I estimate I would have got about 1300 km, tops out of them, more if I wanted to risk puncture flats.

My roads are very rough with a lot of debris/pebbles, crap..etc. I weigh 200lbs so your milage may vary. Currently I have not used the other sets of Corsa CX's and am runing a set of Rubino Pro 2's on the Litespeed for the time being. The Corsas, are an amazing tire, but I'll reserve those for special rides.

I'm running the Attack/Force on my Trek, and they seem like a nice tire, however I don't put enough miles on it to say what it's durability/wear will be like. I do like these tires, even if they do not feel as good as the Vittoria's.

I have also purchased the GP 4000's as I want to try those out as well, however I suspect they will be a buggar to mount on the Campagnolo rims, as most Continental tires are.

R900

Viper,

Thanks for the info. I thought you posted that you bought a bunch of tires recently. I'm just under 200, but the roads are decent. The best thing is I'll be sharing ride time between the Cannondale and Bianchi, so there won't be a ton of miles. Hopefully I'll get at least 1,000 miles out of them. Anyway, are you getting yours from ProBikeKit? With free shipping they seem very hard to beat.

Thanks - John

ViperZ

Yes indeed, Probike kit is the best price bar none...

And you are right, I did go on a tire buying binge too.

The Selvios I bought locally.

Will G

Not sure. I was using Specialized All Condition Pros and went through tires rather quickly (less than 8 months). I had one with a sidewall cut, one took a three inch nail through the crown and out the sidewall (very exciting at 35mph), and two with interior wall separations causing a bump in the tire. I still have two hanging on another set of wheels in the garage that I don't plan on using unless I have to. Specialized does have an unconditional guarantee on their tires which was nice but I was tired of tire problems so I switched.

John Ryder

Years ago I used Michelin Hi-Lite Supercomp HD's ....awesome tire....Then they stopped making them (Michelin switched to bi-synergys....yuck) so I started using Continental Grand Prix 23mm great tire...20's sucked.....me 5' 10'' 170pounds. Years later I went back to the Michelin Axial Pro's tires....hated the green/blue color but they worked....and the black/grey color better....Then I tried the Vittoria Open CX...very smooth tire didn't last long but nice tire.


I went back to Michelin for the Pro Race and then back to Vittoria with the Evo KS and the Evo CX...the KS didn't last long at all...but the CX did much better.


Finally I tried/went back to Conti....with the GP 4000.....Awesome tire so far....I always liked the ride of the GP's. And they are still going strong.

I have a set of the 4000's on both my rides.....no flats yet....knock on wood....3400km on the Litespeed and 3750 on the Trek....the wear indicators have about 1/4 to go....and only a few cuts. The nice thing about the 4000's... no sidewall fraying.