zimbo

If my quads begin to burn after 30 seconds of standing is that indicative of poor form or poor standing fitness?

My experience is that if I'm in too low a gear my legs start to burn from spinning (90+ rpm) while standing but if I'm in a high enough gear to feel comfortable (ie. 70-80 rpms) my power meter says I'm putting out much more wattage than my functional threshold so it's not something I can maintain for very long. Any pointers?

--Steve

pedex

Poor fitness, out of the saddle is tough, the legs wont like it till theyve been forced to do LOTS of it, and heavier riders have a tougher time with it than smaller riders. Over 200lbs it gets damn tough from what Ive seen, but those clydes that can do it are often deadly fast.

You can vary the output by using your arms to take some weight off, turn a bigger gear and do it a bit more slowly, its like climbing stairs basically. Find your own standing threshold and keep working at it, it really doesnt get much easier, just faster. Although lots of riding makes leg burn prettymuch a thing of the past. Instead, when you push too hard too long they either cramp up or just kinda give out---and that is a very disheartening weird feeling, ive had that happen before.

As a rookie messenger I was pathetic at it, my brain wanted to, my form was good, my legs protested, my heart wasnt too happy bout it neither, 5 years later Im quite good at it. I spend about 1/3rd to 1/2 my time working out of the saddle usually accelerating as fast as possible or stopping as fast as possible, took a LONG time before I could do that 5 days a week at will and not get beat up tired from it. It is one of the toughest things to do on a bike, and its often very much a sign of a bikers strength, there are exceptions of course--Basso, Ullrich for example, then there's Armstrong, he went out of the saddle like few Ive ever seen.

FormerBMX'er

BMX Racing is purely out the saddle so I've never felt uncomfortable climbing out the saddle. Climbing steepies in the saddle I'll bend the elbows and get my upper body forward and rear back. I think my biggest flaw out the saddle is I toss the bike a bit much from side to side, an old habit from racing.

InVisib0L

Pretty good Lance climbing video. Pretty intense action too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6DmNMGEuI0

Richard Cranium

Pretty exhaustive discussion of climbing techniques - but I doubt it does anything for the original thread starters climbing ability. I didn't see anyone ask "0810" about why he sucks at climbing hills. No questions about his or her bike setup, his leg-length, his weight.

The best part of the thread , is when someone decides we might as well imitate "pro-level" riders. OK.

Maybe 0810 can tell us why he thinks he needs to learn good form for hill climbing? Maybe some info like height and weight, as well as what kind of riding experience and past training routines would help someone fabricate some advice? Targeted BS is so much more effective than the "throw on the forum wall" kind.

0810

ok... im 6 feet, only a measly 140 pounds.. im 16 years old so not much experience except for a fixed gear mtb bike. i think, or was it SS? the kind where you brake by pedaling backwards. i need good form cause i have minor scoliosis and a bad left shoulder. and cause i live in SF where hills are everywhere.

oilman_15106

Not true. The best climber I have known is an out of the saddle all the way to the top. His cadence is much slower and more even but he smokes everyone on the hills.

jschen

Yikes! May I offer you a box of donuts?

I tried Terry Morse's step by step on my trainer. (Plan to try for real on the road tomorrow morning.) I found that compared to my weight (im)balance before, getting to what Terry and pedex described took a shift to the back of a few centimeters. Not a huge shift, but a huge change in how much weight was on my hands.

By the way, I find that at full (highly unsustainable) effort, the nose of my saddle (with the bike on a trainer and tilted up simulating a 1-2% grade) might occasionally brush against my inner thigh. But at a lower effort, rather than brushing against my thigh, the saddle brushes against the butt cheek of the side that is on the upstroke. Is that supposed to be happening, or does that indicate something wrong with what I'm doing? I can't imagine why a change in effort level would affect how high up my saddle brushes against me. It's not as if my legs grow and shrink based on the level of exertion.

0810

i read somewhere that your weight should not be more than twice you height in inches... so for me.. im lighter, giving me potential to become a great climber cause im light? ehh

Polonswim

That my be true, but I think riders can pedal longer at a certain rate of speed seated than they can standing. I agree that standing can be faster, but I don't think it can be done for a long period of time.

I agree that good climbers are probably as efficient standing or sitting, but how long can they do each? Watching the pros, I notice that they only seem to stand when accelerating or trying to maintain a speed for a certain, short distance. I don't think I have ever seen one climb a long grade standing.

I could be wrong. My wife says I am most of the time.

terrymorse 

Climbing a long grade in one position will be tiring to your muscles, so it's good to switch between standing and sitting. They each use different muscles, and switching back and forth is a good way to give your body a break.

There is even a commonly used climbing exercise that swtiches the rider between sitting and standing.

The rider that climbs in just one position seems to be a rarity. I switch off, 30 seconds of standing for every few minutes of seated.

dekindy

Which one is Simoni? I can't tell which one looks more comfortable. Please point out the obvious since it is not apparent to me. Thanks.

RiPHRaPH

Standing presents a great time to take the pressure off of your quads. Standing and pedalling circles vs. standing and stomping is a huge difference.
Try and pedal in complete circles. The better your core is, the easier standing and climbing is.
Stand to relax from the sitting position, not to stomp and burn your quads more.

chinarider

Standing also gives you a chance to take the pressure off the sitting area & let blood flow easier. Important if you're have any numbness issues on long rides.

I can't stand for a long time without redlining the HR & having my legs burn, so I usually only do it on short crests to keep my speed up. I find it helps smoothness to try to keep your weight over the pedals as opposed to the bars. I don't really pull on the bars as some say you should, but more use them to keep from falling backwards, if that makes sense. I am trying to work on staying out of the saddle for longer periods of time.

Dan

superdex

On long climbs (like Vail Pass, 9.7mi long), I'll need to give my seat a break by standing: Stand and do five strokes, pause and coast for a few feet, then five more and pause. Repeat until ready to sit back down. (the odd number alternates which leg is extended while coasting). The coasting is enough to stretch out a little and get some recovery....

O-Town

Simoni is the rider in front. Most of his weight is centerd over his pedals. The other rider is putting more pressure on his hands. In short, Simoni is using his weight more efficiently than the other rider to get up the climb.

Polonswim

I agree that switching positions and muscle groups is a good idea. Although I usually sit for the entire climb. My question is: Why only 30 seconds of standing for every few minutes of seated climbing?

My thought is because while standing changes the muscle group and gives others a chance to rest, it is not as efficent as seated climbing. I believe that is what the OP is trying to get find out. I also agree with the fact that standing has a place on short hills that can be "sprinted" up, but not for the long haul.

terrymorse 

Well, I prefer to climb seated and use the 30 seconds of standing as a break.

Metaluna

I have this problem in a major way on climbs. It just feels like all my weight shifts to the saddle and I can start to feel numb after just a couple of minutes. I had always heard that standing was generally frowned upon so I'm very gratified to hear that there's a "right" way to do it. I'll definitely have to work on this technique.

The only other issue that worries me with standing is that if you have an equipment failure (broken chain, crankarm, pedal, etc.) you are probably going to go down pretty hard compared to sitting, and with some pretty delicate areas at risk.

dutret

0810's problem is most likely just not enough time spent on the bike. He feels unstable, likely if he keeps riding out of the saddle that will go away soon. Practice Practice Practice. Keep weight distrobution in mind bit just ride more for now. You're young and as you say inexperienced. Lots of people don't feel comfortable out of the saddle at first.

Miller2

That cant be correct. If so I'd be 5'9 138 lbs. I'd look disgusting.

terrymorse 

Speak for yourself. I'm 5'11" 135 lbs of ripped flesh.

pedex

its a tradeoff just like anything else

whats your sprint speed, and 1hr TT distance?

GuitarWizard

Robbie McKewen has a pretty decent sprint for a "small" guy, oddly enough.

Miller2

I was speaking for myself.....if you care to look emaciated that is your perogative.