Pulling at bottom of stroke ROCKS!!
10-29-06 | 07:53 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 193
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From: San Anselmo, CA
Pulling at bottom of stroke ROCKS!!
I've been using this technique over the past few months more and more on my rides. And now that the necessary muscles have developed, I am really amazed how effective it is. I can't recommend it more highly to anyone who wants to get faster and keep the speed up for longer periods.
For those who are not too familiar with the technique, allow me to share my experience. It starts with the general idea of "scraping off the bottom of your shoes". You'll probably find it awkward at first, especially if you're used to mashing. The calf and back of the leg come into play, as opposed to the dominant thigh muscle. It's definitely more effective at a higher rpm, especially at first. I typically spin at 85 to 95 rpm anyway.
I also found that it helped to have my seat at the higher range of the "comfort zone" so as to allow for a smoother spin in general, as opposed to a lower position where the knees are exposed to greater stresses from lateral leg movement and patellar friction.
If you are already comfortable spinning, then it simply requires adding the bottom pull immediately after the downstroke. What's amazing is that you can add another couple of MPH just by adding this simple technique. All other things being equal, your level of effort and heart rate will increase. But you will find that your legs will not fatigue as quickly as you are spreading the effort over more muscles. This is especially effective on climbs as you'll find yourself tapping into your pulling power more at top of the climb as the lactic acid floods your larger muscles. Just don't over-pull as you will strain the back of your knee as you pull around the back side of the pedal stroke. You should never attempt to pull up on the pedals, period!
But there is another way to use the bottom pull technique. Towards the end of a hard ride, when your thighs are toast but you want to keep moving, you can actually skip the downstroke and just do the back stroke. To avoid the awkward dead spot in your pedaling, I find it helpful to let my foot float over the top of the pedal stroke and wait for the bottom of the stroke before engaging the pedal. This has the added benefit of allowing you to stretch your cramped feet in your shoes and adjust your foot to the back of the shoe, if there is any play in them. Now you're just pulling and giving your tired thighs a much needed rest. I wouldn't recommend this on hills and only for limited periods of time as your calves will inevitably cramp up from the effort.
Try it, you'll like it! I promise.
For those who are not too familiar with the technique, allow me to share my experience. It starts with the general idea of "scraping off the bottom of your shoes". You'll probably find it awkward at first, especially if you're used to mashing. The calf and back of the leg come into play, as opposed to the dominant thigh muscle. It's definitely more effective at a higher rpm, especially at first. I typically spin at 85 to 95 rpm anyway.
I also found that it helped to have my seat at the higher range of the "comfort zone" so as to allow for a smoother spin in general, as opposed to a lower position where the knees are exposed to greater stresses from lateral leg movement and patellar friction.
If you are already comfortable spinning, then it simply requires adding the bottom pull immediately after the downstroke. What's amazing is that you can add another couple of MPH just by adding this simple technique. All other things being equal, your level of effort and heart rate will increase. But you will find that your legs will not fatigue as quickly as you are spreading the effort over more muscles. This is especially effective on climbs as you'll find yourself tapping into your pulling power more at top of the climb as the lactic acid floods your larger muscles. Just don't over-pull as you will strain the back of your knee as you pull around the back side of the pedal stroke. You should never attempt to pull up on the pedals, period!
But there is another way to use the bottom pull technique. Towards the end of a hard ride, when your thighs are toast but you want to keep moving, you can actually skip the downstroke and just do the back stroke. To avoid the awkward dead spot in your pedaling, I find it helpful to let my foot float over the top of the pedal stroke and wait for the bottom of the stroke before engaging the pedal. This has the added benefit of allowing you to stretch your cramped feet in your shoes and adjust your foot to the back of the shoe, if there is any play in them. Now you're just pulling and giving your tired thighs a much needed rest. I wouldn't recommend this on hills and only for limited periods of time as your calves will inevitably cramp up from the effort.
Try it, you'll like it! I promise.
10-29-06 | 08:12 PM
#4
I consciously do it more when i'm climbing; good technique.
10-29-06 | 08:15 PM
#5
Dirt-riding heretic
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,413
Likes: 8
From: Gig Harbor, WA
Bikes: Lynskey R230/Red, Blue Triad SL/Red, Cannondale Scalpel 3/X9
Originally Posted by BudFox
Sorry, we all weren't born with your omnipotent greatness....a-hole.
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10-29-06 | 08:21 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
From: San Anselmo, CA
This isn't the "Experienced Cyclists Only" forum. And the post was offered to "those who are not too familiar with this technique". Why hijack a potentially useful post with this crap?
10-29-06 | 08:32 PM
#8
Awww...no biggie. Nobody's trying to bust anyone's balls here. The important point of this thread is to highlight the difference between reading something in a book (or online) and discovering it for yourself. When you were 1st starting out, if someone told you to pull, you might understand in theory....when you really "got" it was after training for a period of time, and then you really felt the benefit.
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10-29-06 | 08:38 PM
#9
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City Area
Bikes: Whatever I want
Originally Posted by BudFox
This isn't the "Experienced Cyclists Only" forum. And the post was offered to "those who are not too familiar with this technique". Why hijack a potentially useful post with this crap?
You post was obviously sincere. That is why you are taking such offense. Unfortunately some of it is nonsense and could cause someone injury. Your conclusions of gaining "x" mph because of it are also completely speculative.
Anyway sorry for the offense!
10-29-06 | 08:39 PM
#10
Shut Up and Ride
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,969
Likes: 0
From: PA (Worst roads in existence)
Bikes: 05 Cannondale Six 13 (Record 2008 with DT rr 1.1 rims, WI H2 Hubs and CX-ray spokes), OLMO Antares (Micx of 06 Record and Chorus), 1988 Tunturri, 1980's Fuji, 1970's Crescent (Sweeden)
Actually that is only one part of the Lemond equation. Many people have mentioned the mud scraping but another key aspect that is often forgotten is to push over the top of the stroke as well.
Instead of thinking "up/down" think "forward/back".
Greg Lemond: "......emphasize pulling back on the pedal as it comes around the bottom of the stroke. Pretend you arescraping mud off the bottom of your shoe........Push your knee towards the handelbar instead of pulling your heel toward the saddle......"
Instead of thinking "up/down" think "forward/back".
Greg Lemond: "......emphasize pulling back on the pedal as it comes around the bottom of the stroke. Pretend you arescraping mud off the bottom of your shoe........Push your knee towards the handelbar instead of pulling your heel toward the saddle......"
10-29-06 | 08:42 PM
#11
Mostly Harmless
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 905
Likes: 0
From: Sittin' on a bench at the railway station, one toke over the line.
Bikes: Giant OCR1, Giant ATX760, Raleigh Retroglide Seven
Congrats on getting the technique down. It is fun to get better!
Here are some tips for more successful "road" threads in the future:
Spend a lot of money on a bike and post pics.
Ask a great question like, "Which way should the weave in my carbon bottle cages go?"
Here are some tips for more successful "road" threads in the future:
Spend a lot of money on a bike and post pics.
Ask a great question like, "Which way should the weave in my carbon bottle cages go?"
10-29-06 | 08:54 PM
#13
Weapons grade stupidity
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 334
Likes: 1
From: D/FW
Bikes: Univega Sportour & Cadillac RLE 1.8
Originally Posted by 531Aussie
is BF turning into a trash talking fourm?
I don't really mind, i just wanna know so i can get into character
I don't really mind, i just wanna know so i can get into character
10-29-06 | 08:54 PM
#15
Somewhere in CA
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 816
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by BudFox
I wouldn't recommend this on hills and only for limited periods of time as your calves will inevitably cramp up from the effort.
It works in the hills too you just need to practice it.
cheers!
10-29-06 | 08:57 PM
#16
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City Area
Bikes: Whatever I want
Originally Posted by wneumann
Your momma so fat she got on a carbon fiber bike and squooshed it into a diamond.
10-29-06 | 08:59 PM
#17
cab horn
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 28,353
Likes: 30
From: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Originally Posted by BudFox
I've been using this technique over the past few months more and more on my rides. And now that the necessary muscles have developed, I am really amazed how effective it is. I can't recommend it more highly to anyone who wants to get faster and keep the speed up for longer periods.
For those who are not too familiar with the technique, allow me to share my experience. It starts with the general idea of "scraping off the bottom of your shoes". You'll probably find it awkward at first, especially if you're used to mashing. The calf and back of the leg come into play, as opposed to the dominant thigh muscle. It's definitely more effective at a higher rpm, especially at first. I typically spin at 85 to 95 rpm anyway.
I also found that it helped to have my seat at the higher range of the "comfort zone" so as to allow for a smoother spin in general, as opposed to a lower position where the knees are exposed to greater stresses from lateral leg movement and patellar friction.
If you are already comfortable spinning, then it simply requires adding the bottom pull immediately after the downstroke. What's amazing is that you can add another couple of MPH just by adding this simple technique. All other things being equal, your level of effort and heart rate will increase. But you will find that your legs will not fatigue as quickly as you are spreading the effort over more muscles. This is especially effective on climbs as you'll find yourself tapping into your pulling power more at top of the climb as the lactic acid floods your larger muscles. Just don't over-pull as you will strain the back of your knee as you pull around the back side of the pedal stroke. You should never attempt to pull up on the pedals, period!
But there is another way to use the bottom pull technique. Towards the end of a hard ride, when your thighs are toast but you want to keep moving, you can actually skip the downstroke and just do the back stroke. To avoid the awkward dead spot in your pedaling, I find it helpful to let my foot float over the top of the pedal stroke and wait for the bottom of the stroke before engaging the pedal. This has the added benefit of allowing you to stretch your cramped feet in your shoes and adjust your foot to the back of the shoe, if there is any play in them. Now you're just pulling and giving your tired thighs a much needed rest. I wouldn't recommend this on hills and only for limited periods of time as your calves will inevitably cramp up from the effort.
Try it, you'll like it! I promise.
For those who are not too familiar with the technique, allow me to share my experience. It starts with the general idea of "scraping off the bottom of your shoes". You'll probably find it awkward at first, especially if you're used to mashing. The calf and back of the leg come into play, as opposed to the dominant thigh muscle. It's definitely more effective at a higher rpm, especially at first. I typically spin at 85 to 95 rpm anyway.
I also found that it helped to have my seat at the higher range of the "comfort zone" so as to allow for a smoother spin in general, as opposed to a lower position where the knees are exposed to greater stresses from lateral leg movement and patellar friction.
If you are already comfortable spinning, then it simply requires adding the bottom pull immediately after the downstroke. What's amazing is that you can add another couple of MPH just by adding this simple technique. All other things being equal, your level of effort and heart rate will increase. But you will find that your legs will not fatigue as quickly as you are spreading the effort over more muscles. This is especially effective on climbs as you'll find yourself tapping into your pulling power more at top of the climb as the lactic acid floods your larger muscles. Just don't over-pull as you will strain the back of your knee as you pull around the back side of the pedal stroke. You should never attempt to pull up on the pedals, period!
But there is another way to use the bottom pull technique. Towards the end of a hard ride, when your thighs are toast but you want to keep moving, you can actually skip the downstroke and just do the back stroke. To avoid the awkward dead spot in your pedaling, I find it helpful to let my foot float over the top of the pedal stroke and wait for the bottom of the stroke before engaging the pedal. This has the added benefit of allowing you to stretch your cramped feet in your shoes and adjust your foot to the back of the shoe, if there is any play in them. Now you're just pulling and giving your tired thighs a much needed rest. I wouldn't recommend this on hills and only for limited periods of time as your calves will inevitably cramp up from the effort.
Try it, you'll like it! I promise.
10-29-06 | 10:34 PM
#19
Originally Posted by operator
Here's the readers digest condensed version: focus on your pedal stroke.
I like is one-legged exercises. The first time somebody showed me this I was getting a fitting at a bike shop. I took one leg off, and as I pedaled with the other (clipped in) foot, I kept getting hung up at about 9 o'clock. That taught me to think about spinning more. Now when I take 1 foot off I can keep it pretty smooth. Proper fit and leg conditioning are factors in that too. I don't do the exercise for long periods of time; just occasionally to check it. But really, you can feel whether you are spinning or mashing. Mashing feels heavy. Spinning feels lighter. For me, I don't do the mud-scraping visualization or the push/pull or anything like that. I simply picture rotating around the axis of the BB spindle.
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10-30-06 | 12:21 AM
#21
Originally Posted by BudFox
This isn't the "Experienced Cyclists Only" forum. And the post was offered to "those who are not too familiar with this technique". Why hijack a potentially useful post with this crap?
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10-30-06 | 12:22 AM
#22
Originally Posted by the beef
Yo mama is like the Trek demo bicycle - everybody gets a ride.
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