I've been lurking around here for about a week now, and noticed some interesting debates on LBS vs. BD. I agree it's not very nice to go to the LBS waste their time with them measuring you up, giving you a test ride and then go and buy that bike online for a lower price. Guess what happened to me. I went LBS searching for the bike I wanted. They didn't have it and told me they could order it. I thought about it for few days and then sent them e-mail asking if I'll be committed to buy that bike without trying it out. They said yes, but suggest I find some other LBS that has this bike, try it out there, and then come back to them for a better price... Not a very nice thing to suggest, don't you think?

A simple test ride is different than a complete fit.

Everybody is just trying to get your business. No harm, no foul. I'd take that suggestion as a hint that they probably have generally "soft" prices and are open to negotiation (get free cages with your new bike, discounts on other stuff). They may be ready to deal.

not really. I think they were pretty fair. they are not saying to come back to buy it, just come back to see if they can give you a better price. and hey, if they do, just call the other LBS and ask if they can beat it.

Is it easy to negotiate price with LBS? Are they usually pretty set on "sticker price" or does it depent from store to store? Sorry for stupid questions, I never bought anything from LBS yet (going to buy a bike on Saturday). What other freebies should I ask for with my bike (what are those "cages" you are talkiuhng about)?

Well, find another LBS that has the bike and negotiate between the two for the best deal (remember, deal is not only bike price but everything you get, from fitting to accessories and future service). This is what the LBS do with their suppliers, and you should do that as well.

That's normal business that goes on everyday in every industry at every level. I wouldn't call it unethical or wasting another LBS's time. Your time is also involved in the process too of going and back to try the bike at another shop. You should be trying to get the best possible deal and service.

I wouldn't say that it is unethical. You're giving the second LBS a fair shake at beating the first one's price, which is what capitalism is all about. By cages, he meant water bottle cages.

I think you are exactly right and in fact with them not having it in stock how exactly is that different than buying from BikesDirect? Oh yea you will pay way more for less bike.

I currently have 5 bikes. 2 from eBay, one from here one I got as a gift (purchased from a LBS in Austin), and one I got from my LBS. In the past 14 months I have purchased 2 $2k bikes form my LBS (sold one when I got the gift). And one of the eBay bikes just cost my LBS a sale...but they still treat me very well and they do get my attention when buying anything...I go there first, but if they can't deliver what I want for a reasonable price (I will pay more than internet pricing but only to a point) I go straight to the net.

Case in point, I needed pedals for the fixie I just got off of eBay. LBS said they wanted $90 plus tax for pedals I can get from PBK for $40 shipped...LBS didn't get that sale. I needed a Garmin GSC-10 cadance sensor for another bike I just built (happens to be a BD frame FWIW) and my LBS again wanted $90 for it...froogle found it for $42 shipped, again the LBS looses. I also needed a chain...my LBS didn't have the one I wanted in stock but their price was close enough to the net so I had them order it even though I could have saved a couple of bucks and gotten it faster off of the net (they order on Mondays and receive on Thursday from QBP and I had them order it on a Wed so nearly a week when I could have had it in a day).

Point being I support the LBS whenever I can...but I am not going to order/buy something from them just because they are there with no regard to what I can get it from otherwise.

I just crossed one particular bike off of my list (and consequently possibly buying it from one LBS) because the shop didn't have it in stock and wanted to charge me 20% the cost of the bike to order it for a test ride. I can understand the economics somewhat on their end, but $500 for a test ride is just plain ridiculous if I'm considering a bike that they supposedly carry. By the way, there are no other dealers of this bike within two hours of here. I was looking at a Soloist Team (aluminum) and they suggested just riding the carbon they had because it would be similar. WHAT?! I bugs me when a shop "carries" a line of bikes and then gives me s**t for showing some interest in one (none of the Trek dealers here even want to discuss Lemond it seems, they certainly don't stock any). $2000 plus is a big enough investment for me to expect a test ride it think. The better shops I've been to always offer this up front.

I don't know if it's unethical as much as it is stupid! If you go to the trouble to come into my shop, the last thing I'm going to do is send you to another shop!

Of course, if you are want something outside what we can get, we don't do the hard sell, or put down the brand you want...that just pisses people off! We try to find you a nearby shop that we wouldn't hesitate shopping in that can help you.

However, unlike most LBS's we offer a 30 day satisfaction guarantee even on ordered bikes, so rather than a 5 minute "test ride" on a bike that hasn't been dialed in for you, you get 30 days on a dialed bike to decide. Since we take more time with customer than the average shop (we know this from mystery shopping all the area shops) we are confident you'll get the right bike to begin with...

I wish more shops did this, but I've actually had a few "competitors" ask me to stop offering it. Fat chance.

Wow, Bikewise1, I wish you were LBS in my area! None of the local shops told me they would accept return, one said they'll be "reasonable" but I'm sure that doesn't mean 30 days. Do you get a lot of returns btw? I think if I bought a bike I would need max one week to find out if I like or hate it...

One return in 3 years. It was a Sun recumbent trike, and the poor old guy broke his hip from a fall in the bathroom...his son brought it back. "Dad can't ride anymore".

Oh, well...at least it wasn't because we screwed up!

I don't know why some shops are so afraid of doing this. It's been great for us...

BikeWise1,

Where is your shop and what do you carry?

Any LBS that thinks that they will survive on the sale of goods is foolish. Brick and Mortar stores can only compete by adding value to the purchase. Primarily this added value comes in the form of additional services (e.g. fittings, maintenance, organizing rides, and knowledge/expertise- plus anything else they can convince consumers is worthy). The internet generally has a lower price for physical good but lacks the essential services many buyers want or need. The OP LBS is probably counting on their own competitive pricing and a tit for tat trade in service from the other LBS.

Simply put, they might believe that they do enough test rides and fittings for the other LBS to justify their recommendation that you use the other LBS. They may have a formal or informal agreement on the matter. They may accept the loss of a sale to you and hope to gain a reciprocal sale latter when the other LBS recommends the opposite action to another future customer.

Ethics are always a tricky question because people have many different notions of ethics that are based on the philosophies of many ethical theorists. I certainly have no moral problem with the suggestion (perhaps some business questions but that is different). The broad term "ethics" can however, justify many bad actions that are ethical under certain ethical philosophies. Under which ethical philosophy are you asking this question?

Being fair and trying to get your business are not competing goals I wasn't saying anyone was being dirty, just that they were taking one approach to get your business...

It's bad when you have an LBS in 2 cities [like i do]. The one always feels a little slighted if you buy something from another - and I end up feeling guilty. I really like the LBS here in Ames, but when it came to buying a new bike, my old LBS in Omaha carried Orbea and the one in Ames didn't. I felt so bad that i rode my other bike on the Thursday night trainer rides until I could bring myself to tell the manager at the Ames shop. Needless to say, I had it played up in my mind way more than what really happened...

I had the same question, if you click on his name, and "view [his] public profile", the linked web page/hom page is for his store.

I'm a Bike Shop owner as well. I'm also a customer to my CPA, attorney, local grocer, hardware store, auto dealer, boat yard, dentist, doctor and a few dozen other establishments. I'm happy to call many of these professionals and business owners my friends. I know the market rate for services and products I'm buying and hold "my associates" accountable in a very collegial way. Intelligent loyalty pays a great return.