My wheel builder is sourcng some rims for me, and he can't get the Mavic Reflex in silver, taht I would prefer. Any suggestions for a modern non-aero tubular rim? He's suggesting Velocity Escape.

I might change to a clincher. Here my short list is Velocity Aerohead OC, a Mavic Open Pro, or DT 1.1.

How do these clinchers stack up, and any more tubular rims you can recommend?

Road Fan

Are these your race wheels? If not, you may be better of with clinchers solely based on the lower cost and ease of fixing flats. Furthermore, many of the benefits (higher psi, less rolling resistance, etc.) can be had with open tubular tires. I ride Vittoria Open Corsa EVO KS, which are fantastic.

As for wheels, I have a set of DA hubs to Open Pro rims which I've been riding for 2 1/2 seasons now. The rims are bomb proof. I love 'em.

I'll second Open Pro rims. I've got one set laced to vintage Campy Record high flange hubs, and another set laced to 2007 Campy Record hubs. They're all 36 spoke 3-cross, and the wheels are bullet-proof and reasonably light.

I've had Mavics and Velocitys, and I say to get the Velocitys (tubie or clincher). They may not be any better, but they're no worse, and cost less. Great products, really.

If you are under 180, there is a set of NOS Fiamme Ergals on ebay. Unfortunately you'll have to beat out our Japanese friends for them.

The builder recommends Aeroheads, with an O/C in the back. I'm using a Record hubset, which could use extra help in stability. He doesn't downplay Mavic Open Pros or Reflexes, but he thinks the Aeros will be more stable. I have 1000s of miles on old Mavic tubulars, so I'm not too concerned about over stressing tubulars. However I've never owned something as aggressively light as an Ergal. I hover around 180#, floating a bit above that right now and also don't race, so these are training and road wheels. I've always (30+ years) liked the superior feel and liveliness of racy gear. I'm not ready for 38 mm ballon tires quite yet.

I think it's the Veloflex Pave Open, Aeroheads, CX ray spokes and the Record 10 speed hub. Zoom!

Road Fan

sounds like the aeroheads are your best bet.

I'm about 230, and can't keep open pros true (a lot of torque on standing climbs inevitably pushes them out of true.

I have aeroheads on my mtb and deep-Vs on the cross bike. Thousands of miles on each, never needed truing. They are on the heavy side, though.

I just had a long conversation with one of the top wheelbuilders in my area (his shop rep is based on wheelbuilding), who really tilted for Velocity rims. In his opinion, the Mavic quality has taken a downturn in recent years. He said he's seen far too many of the Open Pro eyelets crack and break, and the shim used in welding the rim come loose and fall inside. The extent of the problems is such that, though he used to be all-Mavic on his personal wheels, he has since shifted completely to Velocity, which is really putting his money where his mouth is. I was quite convinced by his rationale.

As for me, I already have a set of Velocity (front Aerohead, rear Deep-V), and haven't had any complaints whatsoever.

The Deep Vs are heavy, but the Aeroheads compare quite favorably to the Open Pros:

Aerohead claimed mass: 405g
Aerohead O/C claimed mass: 400g
Open Pro claimed mass: 435g

From weightweenies:
Aerohead measured mass: 435g (from 1999, YMMV)
Aerohead O/C measured mass: 395g
Open Pro measured mass: 430g average

Velocity aeroheads.

It's not the torque. Your power doesn't vary spoke tension anywhere near as much as sideloads when swinging the bike out of the saddle. Doing this on climbs compounds the problem as more of your weight is on the rear wheel anyway.

It's not your power though.