Now before everyone tells me to use the search feature. I did.

I read through a lot of it, but a lot of it is confusing me.

Basically right now I find myself in a position to either buy Sram force or Sram red product.

Basically all I'm looking for is your honest opinions.

It seems like red is basically force with extra CF to make it lighter.

Right now I ride shimano parts, dura-ace rear and ultegra front with ultegra shifters.

Would I really be making a huge upgrade from Dura-ace/ultegra?

I also have shimano hubs, I'm pretty sure they will work with Sram parts, but input would be nice.

Thanks in advance for the input.

I tried all three, Sram force, shimano DA, and campy (although only veloce). I have to say that the upgrade benefit is purely mental. Take that with a grain of salt however.

I personally think everyone should have three identical bikes, one equipped with Sram Red, one with Campy Record, and one with Shimano DA for the pure reason that he/she can decide whether each groupset is worth the cost.

Personally, DA for the ease of shifting. Campy second, and Sram only if you have tons of shimano wheels. Otherwise, start fresh and just go with Sram everything, Shimano everything, and or Campy everything. Whatever you choose, doesn't matter. Why? Because someone will always have better components.

Will SRAM Red give you THREE TIMES the performance you're getting out of your D/A - Ultegra combination? Will it make you three times faster? Will it make you ANY faster really? No. No. And No. No matter what anyone says, performance isn't really the difference among the premium brands. They all shift and brake great -- and the variances are mechanically and statistically insignificant.

The difference is bling. Is SRAM Red bling worth three (or four) times as much money as Ultegra bling? That's for you to answer.

Here's my honest opinion (and what Im thinking about building my next bike with): Sram red cranks/shifters and rivel everything else. The weight difference between the rivel and force are remote, a few grams (if you dont count crank and shifters) and its a few hundred cheaper. The red cranks are much stiffer, almost 100 g lighter then rivel cranks, come with ceramic bearings (cool for durability more then anything else) while the shifters are lighter, have trim adj, better cable action (no delay in cable draw or whatever its called). I personally like how the red cranks look, but thats me. Some people are worried about the durability of the finish. I really dont care, their going on a racing bike so if they get scrached or the finish wears off, I wont cry.

oh yeah, sram cassette will work on shimano hubs

I would add to that a plus for the RED cassette. It's STEEL, yet still lighter than most cassettes out there and SRAM typically offers good cassette options. Force/rival the dérailleurs.

about that cassette, admirable job of milling steel billet, but the design raised a few eyebrows at my pro shop -the entire force of the cassette now rests on two, thin regions front and back, unlike other cassettes that distribute forces evenly over the splines. I'd hate to see the hub splines after a season.

For all intent and purposes, ultegra seems to be the best bang for buck group. Not far away from DA....smooth and durable.
Both my bikes have ultegra with one having a FSA pro crank and I have no regrets, problems or concerns.
Does not have the bling of RED, but when my pockets can afford it, I'll let you know if its worth 4X's as much.
Sorry...one has a dura ace RD.

Red: Cassette, Shifters
Force: Rear D, Brakes (or dura ace)
Rival: Front D
Crankset: Dura Ace!

Wrap a 1090r chain around all of it and you're good to go. The Force crankset I had was trash IMO. I wouldn't risk the money on the Red crank plus that BB is ~$195.

Fixed. 50 bucks for 9 grams, kinda pricey.

Yeah, but if you think about it, right now, in a lot of cases, it only rests on one. I'll take the two. That said, I never shell out for the expensive cassettes, so I think I'll stick with Ultegra and the 1070's.

And I agree with what Stray Cat said... My current build is Force shifters, RD, rival brakes, Dura-Ace crankset, and Ultegra front der.

In January, it'll be Red Shifters, Force RD/Brakes, DA FD, and DA crankset.

As of right now, this is my set-up

RD: Dura-ace
FD: Ultegra
Cranks: FSA omega
Shifters: Dura-ace
Brake levers: Ultegra
Cassette/chain: shimano 10-speed

If I were to upgrade
I would go to
RD: Force
FD: probably stay with ultegra
Cranks: keep my FSA
Shifters: Force
Brake levers: Force
Brakes: Red
Cassette/chain: Red