TrekRider

I want the honest opinions of Cannondale R1000 and Lemond Zurich riders who have had them for at least 1000 miles.

While I know "feel" is very subjective, I would still like to hear your personal experiences on bumpy roads, how the bike held up when (if) you hit a pothole, how all the components faired, especially the wheetset.

Everytime I think I have narrowed my choices to one, something pops into my head. I am now torn between the Cannondale and the Lemond.

:confused:

Dchiefransom

I've got a Lemond Zurich. haven't ridden carbon, but had aluminum with Cro-Moly fork. The Zurich is a much better ride. I have an older 25-26 pound steel Trek with touring geometry, and the Zurich rides as nice as that. The one thing I've noticed from my Zurich (2002) is a popping type sound when I hit good bumps. It's been checked by the LBS, and they did the adjustment of the threadless stem twice, with no change. On an organized ride with lots of Lemonds around me, we would hit pavement cracks, and I would hear this from other Lemonds as well. The headset is a Cane Creek S2.

HOG-I

My last Cannondale was a Hibred 400. Not bad, but a little harsh. Most recently I was riding a 2003 Specialized Allez Sport upgraded to all 105. Very stiff and good power transfer but harsh. First Century just about did me in as the roads were less than nice. I really wanted to like it but finally started researching steel frames. Settled on a Lemond Zurich which I now have 1500 miles and one metric century. I'm an older rider, with a 12 year racing background some 20 years ago, and still competetive (read Senior Olympics). For everyday distance riding and competition, stated above, it is one great bike. I'll give you it is not as stiff but weight wise it is comparable to the Sport, probably because it is a double vs. a triple on the Sport and Ultegra vs. 105. Depends on what your riding program will be but my vote goes for the Zurich. I had a Richard Sachs, Columbus SL frame when I was racing (don't I wish I still had it !!) and the Zurich is like an old friend. Well made, good components, and the Bontrager Race Lite wheels have given me no problems. I opted for the Thompson seat post and my Terry Fly Gel saddle. Good luck on your choice and good riding.

TrekRider

I should have put in how I ride. Right now I have a Trek Navigator 300 comfort bike. I ride an average of 200+ miles per week. Pushing this beast around is getting to be a real chore, plus the fact it was a gift and it is way to small for me, a 54cm frame, and I am 57 years old, 6'3", 240lbs.

I am sure when I get a road bike, I will be able to ride a lot more. I know steel will generally give a more forgiving ride, but my LBS guy says even though the Cannondale is stiff, for someone my size, it will be a very comfortable ride.

Walter

In 1986 I built up one of the first generation Cdales to ride with a college club. I had just decided to end my less than glorious football career and had always enjoyed riding. So, like you I was (and still am) on the far side of 200#.

Anyways most Cannonball people refer to the 1st generation bkes as the harshest riding. I always thought it rode really well. Not too long ago I took it out of mothballs and took it for a short ride and still think it rides pretty well. Not as well as my Colnago Master or retro Columbus SL Basso but a pretty nice ride anyway you look at it. Both the 'nago and Basso have better wheelsets also.

My thinking is that for you and I the added bodyweight smooths out what a 150# rider might feel is indeed harsh. IMO both bikes will suit your needs in regards to ride "feel."

Aesthetically, the Lemond Zurich wins, hands down.....

Pat

I am a large rider also. Cannondales are a good choice because they are stiff and that is what a larger rider needs. The low end of my cycling weight is 190. I have ridden cannondales for years and primarily for their stiffness. The one I liked the best was the old Black Lightning. Suntour Sprint components (which seemed better then Shimano in retrospect). The bike's ride was a bit harsh at times, but the handling was superb.

The newer 'dales have a more complient ride but the handling doesn't seem quite as good.

However, I have a friend (a bit larger then me) who has a Lemond and he is very happy with it. Test ride them and take the one YOU like. I don't think you would go wrong with either.

TrekRider

Thanks guys. The only problem now is I just looked at the 2004 R1000 at Cannondale's website. When I first saw that lizard green color I thought it was on the far side of ugly!

But, after several views, it is starting to grow on me. I do like the blue R2000, though.

I had planned on upgrading the wheels to the SLs instead of the Elites. Depending on how much that will cost, perhaps going for the R2000 might be worth the extra bucks.

When I started my search, I had my wife going for a $1200-1500 bike, now I have her up to 2 grand. All I need is a little nudge to get her to the $2400 or so for the R2000 with Ultrega pedals and Sidi Genius 4 shoes!

SipperPhoto

My vote is for the Zurich... I ride a Lemond Maillot Jaune now, which is basically the same frame... both Reynolds 853 Pro Steel... I love it.. so smooth.. good stiffness.. accelerates great, and super light.. my bike weighs in around 17 lbs, with Full Ultegra on it... I almost bought an '02 Zurich, but didn;t have the cash at the time... the 03's are sweet though

Let us know what you get

JEff

Lone Ranger

I say go for the Zurich also. I have had mine for 2 years (2001 model- red/white) and I have 1500-2000 miles on it. The ride is fantastic. It soaks up bumps and road irregularities. You can feel the frame work to absorb uneven pavement and bumps. It is smooth and holds a line well. I suggest you ride one at the same day you ride the Cannondale. I bought it because of the ride - the difference between the Zurich and an aluminum bike was immediately evident. I weigh 200-210 lbs. Everything has held up well - no problems. The wheelset has needed no work.

KennethToronto

Uh...I'll be the lone voice of opposition and say strongly consider the Cannondale

I'm not sure how the 04' R1000 looks like but:

1. This is subjective but cannondales look a helluva lot nicer than Lemonds
2. No one beats Cannondales at making aluminum frames in terms of technology invested and quality...at least I haven't seen someone else do it better. Oh, their bikes are also race tested as well (unlike the Lemonds which I don't believe are associated with any professional teams)
3. Harshness - as someone pointed out, this is likely more relevant when dealing with first generation aluminum frames. Cannondale has come a looooong way with today's CAAD7/Optimo technology.
4. Weight...ok, this isn't really that big of an issue but if you're a gram weenie, then you should obviously choose the lighter, stiffer, more responsive frame (cannondale).

Oh, you can also call me a C'Dale fanboy because that's exactly what I am

TrekRider

As to harshness, I weigh 240lbs and will never get below 200. I would wither up and die. My LBS guy said for my size, the harshness of the CAAD7 frame is a non-issue. Plus, he had cut-away's of a Cannondale CAAD7/Optima and a Trek 2200 aluminum frame. The CAAD7 welds were cleaner and the butting seemed better.

Nope, at 240lbs, I am nowhere near a gram weenie! The only problem I have heard is from a guy with a 2003 R2000 and he said it gets a little light on rapid descents. Of course, he is a lightweight (180lbs).

But, damn the 2002 Zurich was a beautiful bike. The 2003 was kind of doggy in my opinion. Waiting to see the 2004's. The more I look at the pics of the new R1000 Lizard Greenie, the more I like it.

HOG-I

Concerning professional team using Lemond - Try Saturn (#1 US professional team).

Lone Ranger

I still think you should try riding both. When buying, I rode my Zurich and a slightly less expensive aluminum Specialized and was shocked at the difference. The Zurich tracked much better and it was just more comfortable soaking up road imperfections. I wouldn't say the aluminum was harsh, but the Zurich was supple and more composed. It is hard to put in words. You owe it to yourself to try both before plunking down that type of money.

Trouble

My vote is for the Zurich. I researched and test rode a ton of bikes and ended up purchasing a 2003 Zurich. For the price it is hard to beat.

After hearing that same popping sound I started to check out potential causes.
Expansion cracks really brought it out. The conclusion I came to was the sound comes from the shifter/brake hoods.

Walter

I was going to add that Saturn does use LeMonds as their team bike.

Of course they can't hold Saeco's wheel in any type of race but that's not the bike's fault.

Lone Ranger is right. Test them both.

KennethToronto

woops...guess I missed that.
I was thinking more along the lines of pro European teams (Saeco-Cannondale) though.

RiPHRaPH

no one has mentioned the big difference in geometries yet. 16 posts and not one mention of the Lemond angles. that's a new record (not campy)

BikingCT

Trek,

As a big rider (6'4 250-lbs), I've been riding Cannondale's for almost 5 years. Rode a bad boy for 1.5 years (mountain frame with road components), an R900 for about 2 years, and now an R3000 for a year (CAAD5). I can't say enough about how pleased I am. Admittedly the ride can be a bit rough on less than perfect roads, but I've adapted by lowering my tire pressure--no problems now (I used to ride them pumped to the max psi) and choosing better routes.

I've hit every type of pothole imaginable and have had limited problems--the R900 was probably the worst, and the 3000 the best. The Mavic Ksyriums make a big difference--man are they durable!! I've had no porblems with the frame, BB, cranks or anything else.

I understand your friend's comment about the bilke feeling "light" on steep descents. I think it feels light all the time--even more when starting from a stop (at a stoplight, for example) and standing in the peddles to get up to speed. Sometimes I feel I'd like a bit more "weight" under me. I'm not sure why. As far as the downhill issue, I've simply gotten used to it. Once you've pushed a few rapid descents, you get more and more comfortable with the bike. I'm not sure bike weight will make a difference if you go down (ouch).

I can't compare to the LeMond...I've never ridden one. But, even with the limited faults listed above, I can promise my next bike will be another Cannondale. BTW, I've heard the new CAAD7 makes the ride even better. Unfortunately my 3000 was a 2002 model so they were still selling it with the CAAD5.

About color, don't fret--I'm riding the "hot pink" second color of the 2002 R3000. Got it in July of last year. I was looking for a 1000 or a 2000, and Cannondale didn't have any left in stock in my size. My LBS asked about the 3000, and they had them in stock. The silver listed at $3700, and that's what they were selling it for. The Pink listed at $3700, and I got it for $2200 (not kidding!!) They had plenty of excess inventory of the pink since no one wanted a pink bike. It didn't bother me. Now I'm the talk of the town!! Other cyclists look at the bike and only see the quality components. It's just the non-cyclists who give me a hard time. But I'm enough of a man to take it! I just pretend I'm a member of team Telecom.

Sorry for the long-winded response. Good luck!!

vadimivich

That's why I will never own a C-Dale, they scare the piss out of me going downhill, and I know I'm not the only one who's ever felt that. The front end seems to completely unload at 35+ mph.

TrekRider

It's nice to hear about another normal sized guy like us riding a Cannondale. Yes, the 2003 and 2004 R1000 and up are the CAAD7/Optima frame and reportedly STIFF if you are under 190lbs.

I'm also very happy to hear about the Ksyrium wheelset. That is my biggest worry. Well, after flying down a steep incline and wiping out!

If I could get a $3700 Cannondale for $2200, I would jump at the chance, pink, purple, or striped! I might start calling myself Gilberto, too!

ImprezaDrvr

First, let me say that the Dale and Lemond are great bikes.

I have my Dale over 35 on over half of the rides I do here, and don't feel the front end going anywhere unless I tell it to. Even up to about 55, it's stable as all get out. Even on switchbacks, etc.

An earlier post mentioned the ride of an alu Specialized as being harsh. You can't compare Specialized and Cannondale. Cannondale has done a lot to smooth out their ride without sacrificing bottom bracket stiffness. CAAD5+ bikes are a great blend of stiffness and compliance.

Just a couple of points. I can't really make a suggestion between the two, though. Thinking of making the move to steel myself, (but lookin' seriously at Independent Fabrications or Colnago).

Good luck either way!

ZackJones

I'll put it to you this way. I'd rather ride a '99 Lemond Nevada City frame than a '03 K2 frame. I like the Lemond so much that I sold my K2 recently.

Zack
who needs a new avatar

TrekRider

I was basing my views on what others had told me. However, the following revirew from https://www.roadbikerider.com/pr2.htm#Cannondale%20R5000 seems to disple that notion. While the bike tested was the R5000, it is the same frame as the R1000's and up.

"I was prepared for a harsh-riding bike -- 'Dales are aluminum, after all -- and the designers abjure compliant carbon seatstays in favor of aluminum stays attached to a conventional diamond frame. Certainly this was a recipe for bone rattling.

"Wrong! The R5000's CAAD7 frame was a wonderful blend of stiffness in the bottom bracket along with surprising comfort on rough roads.

"When I uncorked my admittedly aging sprint, I couldn't make the chain rub on the front derailleur cage no matter how hard I tried.

"But on the rough chip-and-seal that passes for pavement in western Colorado, the bike was anything but jarring. I notice a harsh frame first in my rear end. Even comfy saddles turn into torture instruments if the frame doesn't absorb road shock. The CAAD7 allowed my favorite seat to remain my friend.

"I also liked the bike's downhill stability. Any frame that shimmies can be deadly on Colorado's long, windy descents. The CAAD7 was rock-solid on the 6-mile plummet from Black Canyon National Park in a vicious crosswind. It popped over cattle guards without problems."

The more I see and hear of Cannondales the more I like them. And even the "lizard green" highlights are beginning to look pretty darned good!