'flyer

IF the system is LIGHTER than cables and levers, I'd agree.
The power supply is the fly-in-the-chamois fat, however.
I believe that continuously variable transmissions for cycles holds more promise, and a MUCH larger market.
But not for me...

Machka 

Didn't they try to market some sort of automatic shifting system on department store bicycles a few years ago ... if I'm not mistaken it used weights and centrifugal force to trigger the shift.

Are they still on the market?

iab

Trek makes one now, it is called the Lime.

iab

Good point, as long as the wheels are spinning, the battery would be constantly charged. In theory, the batteries would never die.

My question would be would the derailleur change. With a servo, moving left to rigt, right to left makes no difference. Now you use the cable to pull it in one direction and the spring in the parallelogram pushes it in the other direction. The spring would proably go away but what about the parallelogram?

San Rensho, I disagree, functionally ES is better than STI although it is evolutionary, not revolutionary. The improvements are:
1. Physically easier to shift (I know it is negligible, but it is true)
2. More options for shifting button
3. More options for placement of shifting buttons, from anyplace on the bars or any place the rider wants
4. Programmable
5. Multiple gear shifts with the press of one button
6. Built in gear indication

DanielS

Simple answer - have a rear dynohub as well, that powers your electronic shifting!

supton

Good question; beats me. Up to the engineers of such systems; I'm sure they'll look at both options. My thinking, though, would be that they would keep the parallelogram, as then the stresses on the servo would be just in one direction. Actually, they could just use a screw and a stepper motor, zero power when not shifting (but potentially slower shifting action). And, in the event of dead battery/broken wires, could potentially be used to dial in a different gear.

It'll be interesting to look at when it arrives.

jet sanchEz

I'm waiting for electronic wireless shifting. I think that one day, shifting gears with cables will be a fond memory.

Tio

I have to agree.... its not that I am some techno-phobe luddite, but I am keenly aware that even the most high-level technology fails and I have enough problems with chain drop, adjustments of all sorts, etc. I like knowing that I can generally fix these things myself.

I remember a time when people could work on their own cars -- versus now, when even a simple oil change is so nuanced that the backyard mechanic is obsolete. While yesterday was the time of the backyard car mechanic, today is still the time of the at home bike mechanic.

I guess there is one potentially noble bi-product that can result from this, also parallel to what has happened with automobiles. In the past the local mechanic was held in very minimal esteem (except when a person really needed him/her). Now with the specialized knowledge and credentialing that goes with the trade, their high-tech knowledge is more respected. If this extends to cycling, no longer will we have the days when we complain about the "incompetent high school kid working down at the LBS"; instead, we will be acknowledge the worth of our mechanics (but only after being compelled to pay premium for the services of a skilled and respected professional).

Nah, I think I will keep my STI and enjoy the road all the same.

Ryanf

i will never ever use electric shifting.

TrekDen

I voted neutral, but not because it needs to be proven first. I really just don't care one way or the other.

Denny

spdrcr5

and how would you go about trimming the electronic shifter when your derailleur goes out of adjustment as you know it will. With STI you can compensate until you're able to make the adjustment. How do you do this with an electronic shifter?

keep the electronic shifting off of a bicycle, it isn't needed let alone warranted.

toucci

I want electric shifting. Some day we'll laugh at freds with shift cables jutting out from their brifters.

BarracksSi

I'm not sure about that, though. With indexed shifting, it's already about as pushbutton-like as it can get. Maybe it could help avoid having to fudge near-shifts due to misadjustment (read below), but the shifting action can't get much easier than it is already. I think they're usually confused by having so many speeds available -- after all, when was the last time any of us drove a 27-speed car?

Heck, I don't even think that much about shifting. I'd be worried about it flinging the chain off the front & rear at the same time... but that could probably be programmed out, too. It would be simpler to consolidate two-handed shifting into one up-down switch, though.

Backyard car mechanics still exist to an extent, except that some of us are using laptops for engine tuning.

That's also assuming that the derailleurs will be the same design. Servos are nice in that they can keep their trim pretty well, and adjustment comes from pushing another button. They can also move light loads quickly (R/C cars & planes are good examples), and since a servo-driven derailleur doesn't need a return spring, all it has to do is guide the chain.

Maybe sensors could be built into the derailleur that tell the computer whether the chain actually achieved the shift. And, if it didn't, it could make the adjustment on its own, without any help from the rider.

Even so...

+1

nerobro

Servos are the key. However if they are fighting any force they end up using juice. A few mA adds up quickly. A submicro servo has enough force to make that chain jump, especially if it's fed through a worm reduction gear first. Wtih a wormgear in line, and a standard r/c servo-saver, the servo could be set to move to gear 5 position, it will get there... As the servo saver would behave as the derailur spring.

Having the worm gear means that if the battery fails, the bike will be in that gear. And with a simple little knob on the end, you could manually set gear if that were necessary.

Now, I hate the idea of adding electronics to the bike. I like my machines to need a little intelegence to use. But something tha'ts been missed so far, is that you would only need two buttons. "up" and "down" The shift computer would very easily handle the "granny, mid, top" choice and "no crosschaining" rules for you. There would be no thought involved in knowing what gear on the rear your'e in, versus what gear you are in up front.

I could get to like that...

kendall

Double acting solenoid (push-pull) operating a screw with detent balls at each 'shift point' would provide positive stops at each cog, no likelyhood of overshooting a gear, a bit of overtravel on the solenoid would give it the extra kick to engage the gears and the detent would keep it in gear without power.
would eliminate the parrelleogram, and make the shifter movement linear

ken.

shumacher

I could see a sportier version of Shimano Coasting for the recreational market. The shifting system is powered by some sort of dynamo. There's a pair of dérailleurs. You can shift it, or you can ride manual. A little fuzzy logic can detect the rider approaching a stop through speed, pedal position, and braking, and automatically drop to the rider's preferred "off from a stop" gear. Gears are presented sequentially by height, so the user doesn't have two grips, they have one. The system skips gear combinations that would cause undesirable chain angles.

nerobro

Big solinoids have huge appetities for power. You'd need a very big battery pack to run solinoids that would be strong enough to kick a derailur from gear to gear. You'd also need to have something to provide force against the derailur to get it doing it's job. I suppose the same "servo saver" setup I was mentioning earlier could work... the battery pack or at least capacitor and charging system necesary to make a system like that work would be prohibitively large. You'd lose any weight advantage right there. Not to mention the large + heavy solinoid.

An electric motor (read: servo) is a highly mechanically advantaged set of solinoids...

BarracksSi

Probably the biggest thing to overcome, then, is the power supply. Given power without restrictions, engineers would come up with some neat stuff. But, it's going to be awfully difficult to make a system that's even close in weight to the traditional cable system.

Tri-FatBoy

I can barely be bothered with a cycle computer most times, or to replace the batteries in my lights, let alone have to worry about powering my shifters. The concept is cool, but until I ride the TdF, I'll keep what I've got, thanks.

Psimet2001 

Electronic shifting is really something that just doesn't seem to be needed at all. There is no clear benefit.

Then again I thought the same when indexed shifting came out.

That's why I voted that I'll wait and see.

caloso

Solution in search of a problem.

I'll pass.

FlashBazbo

Interesting observation -- Those of us in the U.S. are somewhat less accepting of the idea than those in the rest of the world. Not that there's a lot of acceptance anywhere. It's a very small difference.

prendrefeu

If Wireless: Instead of accusations of doping, you'll get accusations of 'hacking' by a team car as it passes by another team's riders: 'ghost' shifting. (think Breaking Away scene only more chicane)

If Wired: it's a lot easier to damage an electric line than a metal cable. **** happens on the road, and we're not running with support cars all the time.

Regardless, I don't like the idea - it further abstracts and removes the 'accessibility' of the bicycle from the common man. The mechanics of a bicycle thus far, no matter how high-end of a drivetrain you have running, are inherently intuitive. It's not that hard to figure out where a problem is, or how to fix it... now with electronics, we're putting the bicycle further away from the universality of such a beautifully simple - and highly efficient - machine for the masses.

DinoShepherd

Interesting, but I can't see Shimano or Campy doing it.

Maybe somebody like Mavic...

-Z

Psimet2001 

????

I guess you haven't seen all of the prototypes that Campy AND Shimano have been field testing in the Euro peleton for the last few years. They will both be coming out with it. It is now a matter of which model year.