so then...i was going to get zipp 303's before Duke thought i'd be better off with 202's or 404's.

what wheels would you guys recommend for wheels not much more than $2k?

Get a custom build from Ligero and be done with it. You'll get all you need/want - lightness, aero, better hubs, better spokes, whatever the hell you want, for much less than $2k - and specifically built to your riding style and weight.

OR... NIMBLE crosswinds. less than 2k for a set, more aero than anything aforementioned in this thread.

oh wow...never even heard of them before! gosh...the cycling world is diverse...

"Simple logic" is the realization that comparing racing bikes to racing cars rarely makes much sense. General principles are similar: better power to weight ratios make both faster, better aerodynamics makes both faster, both have wheels, etc.

But waterrockets concisely explained why rotating mass is overrated.
I'm surprised that it's so often forgotten that cars spin shafts and wheels at thousands of rpm's. Consider that you aren't likely to spin the cranks at more than 120 rpm for more than mere seconds at a time, or that when you are cooking along at 50 mph that your wheels will be spinning at around 625 rpm. You're never going to break so much as 700 rpm with your wheels, and when you're riding in the 500-600 rph range there's not much that acceleration going on.

It's easy to forget when we're feeling big and hairy about our latest PB that bicycles are pitifully slow, and can't accelerate worth a damn. 30 miles per hour? At 30 miles per hour a racing car is still in first gear! We reallly are just too damn slow to benefit much from "rotating weight." It's not that there's no greater benefit to be derived, it's just that it's miniscule.

By the way, I think that weight is a way to make your bike faster, even if only marginally. Sometimes that's worth investing in. I'm just trying to provide a reality check for the placebo effect of rotating weight.

Weigh every part of your bike. Record the numbers in a spread sheet. Find the lightest parts you can replace them with. Record those weights, the difference between the two, and the price in your spreadsheet. Figure out which are the most economical, and keep in your head that rotational mass is more important than non rotating mass. Figure out what parts will make the most difference for the least amount of money. Research all parts and make sure they are quality, or if another slightly heavier part is available at a lesser price, and replace in spreadsheet initial parts with the newly decided upon parts and recalculate. Then purchase parts, and install, and enjoy. That is the process I go through for modifying my road bikes. I got a spread sheet open right now actually.

Yeah, they're a small outfit, but they've got an amazing track record going for their wheels :) They simply don't have the marketing prowess like ZIPP to get their name out there and emblazoned into the choir that is BF. Here's a link to the crosswinds. Call them up if you're interested, they're great to work with and are very honest about what is the best situation for your needs.

And as for Ligero... one of the best custom builders around.

( i did not reads any o fthe previous post ) Simply put : think alot about cycling is alot like owning a car. And just like a car often times the after market wheels do not help performance but certainly look better.

owning a bike is personal. from the color to the handlebars, etc.. and wheels play a big part. often times having nice wheels is just that. I will say going from clinchers to much lighter tubies I could certainly feel a difference.

I have 11.2lbs wheels on my car. Will be switching to 8.4lbs. wheels soon. I don't care what my cars wheels look like as long as they are light. I also cut the side impact beams out over the summer, and this winter I am swapping a non sunroof, roof in. It is all about hp to weight ratio. Not that I need it lighter. I spin the first 4 gears anyway. I think of the bike the same way. So yes it is on a quest of lightness.

Let me guess: you are under age 30 yrs and have no family, right?

Of course. The car isn't a daily driver or anything either. Well right now the bikes are, until I get my license back, but I do own 3 vehicles. The license is a whole different story.

I wouldn't write off the 303's so quickly. As for being light, I'd call 1106 grams for a moderately aero wheel, doing it pretty well.

Compared to the 404's they are almost 250 grams lighter. And the new 303's with 44mm deep rims and dimples are, according to Zipp, as aerodynamic as the old 404's without dimples.

Compared to the 202's, the 303's are only approximately 60 grams heavier, and way more aerodynamic. Moreover, the 303's recommended weight limit is 200lbs, while the 202's is 185lb.

I have the 303's and am pushing the weight limit with no problems, I wouldn't trust the 202's at my size. Even if you're not approaching the weight limit, it would appear that the 303 is a more robust wheel, more aero, and with a cost of only 60 grams.

I also have a set of 404's. IMHO, the 404's are the best choice in Zipp wheels for an all around wheel, But for climbing where the principle focus is weight, I'd go with the 303's over the 202's.

ITS ALWAYS WORTH IT IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY...HELL YEAH!!!

However if you don't have the money.....you then try to find a reason why its not worth it such as but is not limited to;

- "its only xxx amount of grams"

- "I would rather lose weight myself than spend that money on a few grams"

- "Ultegra or Chorus or (insert the next to the top of the line product here)__________ is just as good, why would I have to spend more?"

etc etc etc...

Fact is,..for those who has got the money outright....ITS REALLY WORTH IT!!!!

Btw I dont have the money so I think its a waste of money to be a weight weeny ha ha ha ha!!!!

Not sure about this year's layup, but I've never seen a pair of 404s, or non-dimpled 404 rimmed wheels by another large company, weigh more than 1300, aside from the Ritchey and one of the AC versions. Ritchey, which use heavy spokes and hubs, hit around 1330. The American Classic version come with two options; Sapim spokes 18/24 at 1225g and 200lb limit, or 1335g with AC spokes, 18/24, 225lb limit.

Edit: the 2007 Zipp 404s, with the new layup, are still less than 1300g, at 1292.

I have the money, and it's not worth it. "Have the money" is relative. I choose to spend on other things, and save a lot. Don't assume that everyone with a six-figure income is going to value $2K wheelsets...

The Zipp web page had it at 1352. But even at 1292, the 303's are only 1106.

The 404's are the best overall choice, but I still think the 303's have their place for events with a lot of climbing.

+1. Ding ding ding, we have a winner. EOT.

Love it. Another purveyor of the hype.

<sarcasm>Yep, those time trial guys sure do go slow on those heavy disc wheels....</sarcasm>

And wasn't the last hour record set on very heavy wheels?

Your body, in top shape will make you faster. Every time. Spend your money there.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen riders on state-of-the-art equipment, super light wheels and all, dropped in the first mile by guys on heavier, older bikes who were quite simply more fit.

Sounds like the "assassin" is on the "fast track" to self-extermination!;)

It wasn't driving related. I race the car. I get into it sometimes on the street, but not like I used to when I was young and stupid. The car is getting a cage soon too, with full door bars. As far as the license. Since you live in Ohio I will tell you. Don't get caught with pot, or any drug for that matter. If you do, either hire a lawyer or say good bye to your license for 6 months. :(

Sorry to be picky about this one, but, Pre was not a marathon runner(mainly 2000 meters to 10000 meters (though I realize you didn't say this in your post, it seems to be what most people believe), and it would probably be closer to 50,000 strides in a marathon for someone that has a relatively long stride length.

To me, lighter weight means more money and more fragility. I'd rather pay less for something heavier that lasts longer, can work on myself and gives me less trouble with proprietary parts.

Do I really care if my wheels add .2 mph on a group ride with friends? No.

The best reason to have a weight weenie bike is for friends and co-workers.

Whenever they see your bike for the first time, the first thing they do without fail is pick it up by the top tube.

If the bike isn't especially light in their minds, they'll sort of wrinkle their nose, then force themselves to smile and say 'nice bike', but in their own minds they're thinking 'what a boat anchor, this isn't any nicer than my bike, he can't be that good, I could totally take this guy'.

If the bike is really light, you'll see it fly up off the ground, as they over-estimated what it would take to lift it. You'll get an honest, 'whoa, nice bike. That's really light. How much does it weigh?' At that point, tell them, to the ounce. You'll get respect, admiration, and you'll know that you'll always be able to crush them if they dare ride with you because in their minds, you're really really fast.

Yes, being a weight weenie is worth every penny.

go light or go home http://www.chrisgilmour.com/cache/zoom_7.jpg

If you aren't interested in making your bike lighter that is perfectly fine. That's your right but there is nothing more annoying then a cyclists who isn't weight weenies and try to diminish the value of a lighter bike. As if making a bike lighter is below them. It's pompous and stupid.

There is value in riding a lighter bike. If you don't agree that's perfectly fine but there is nothing wrong with cyclists wanted to spend money on lighter parts. Get over it.

Two terrible misconceptions. Light parts aren't always expensive or fragile. I've never had any issues with the light parts I've purchased and most of the time they perform better than cheap heavy parts.