curtisvill

Hi all, newbie here with a couple of questions about frames, in particular, the difference between carbon and titanium frames.

Other than the fact that the 2 materials are entirely different, what are the unique characteristics of each one? Is one smoother than the other? Is one stiffer than the other? Weight? Is carbon the new thing and titanium the old thing? If you were choosing a new frame which material would you prefer and why? As I search for a new bike, I am trying to gather as much information as I can so that I can make an informed decision. Thank you, I really appreciate all of your insight.

John

Hobartlemagne 

Carbon feels smoother on rough roads, but Many Ti frames have carbon forks anyway.
I chose Ti because I wanted a frame that could survive a crash without me having
to worry about locating frame cracks that could lead to catastrophic failure (as needed in Carbon).

Fox Farm

Ti feels more like a steel frame in terms of being some what lively. As for stiffness in the bottom bracket area, I was actually surprise at how close my Merlin felt to my old Cannondale when sprinting up a hill.

This topic has been discussed here for years so do some archival thread reading.

urbanknight

That's exactly why I chose Ti. Plus it rides like steel but is lighter and doesn't rust.

sced

How much lighter? Is rust a problem for someone who takes care of their bike?

werksmini

No it shouldnt be unless you chip the paint and ride around in some salty water or dont wipe 'er down after a wet ride.

Hobartlemagne 

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

Read this for an excellent description of frame materials

LIUser22

i chose carbon, my tarmac pro felt a lot stiffer than my dad's ti bike, but i haven't rode many Ti bikes...
I want a litespeed

CyLowe97

All this "smoother ride" "lighter weight" talk doesn't matter if they are not designed properly or if they are not fitted properly.

Oh yeah, Aluminum frames will give you a jarring ride that will fuse your spine. Be careful.

sced

I trust this is tongue-in-cheek!

CyLowe97

I don't know... I get Bicycling Magazine every month and they always say how harsh aluminum can be and that those carbon forks and stays will smooth out the ride.

Every. Freakin'. Review.

Take any proclamation regarding smooth ride, bottom bracket flex, vertical compliance / lateral stiffness, and aerodynamics you encounter with a healthy grain of salt, whether in print or online.

Hobartlemagne 

You believe what you read in that stapled stack of slick toilet paper?

Smorgasbord42

Well, SevenCycles thinks that the the down tube, head tube, and chainstays should be titanitum while the top tube, seat tube, seatstays and fork should be carbon. Here's my Elium SG:




I don't know what's true and what's hype, but I can tell you my bike is a sweet ride. Really expensive, though.

I firmly believe aluminum does vibrate more than carbon. At my LBS they had me hold a carbon fork by its steerer tube while they hit one of the fork ends with a rubber hammer. OK, I said, so what. Then we did the same with an aluminum fork. The damn thing vibrated like a tuning fork - I could feel it up my arm. Some here have poo-poo'd that as not mapable to real world use, but I'm a believer.

sced

By Jove I think you hit the nail on the head. Also, I have a 35 year old bike that's never rusted because it's well cared for. I'll bet the weight savings of a Ti bike over steel, when comparably engineered and fabricated, will be.....does anybody really know?

terry b

I own several of each. They all ride well. A crappy titanium frame will ride like crap. A crappy carbon frame will ride like crap. A well designed and built frame in any material will ride nicely.

The magic properties of materials get swamped by design choices and components. The only meaningful distinctions come from comparing actual products, not materials. My 3 titanium frames are as different from each other as they are from my 5 carbon frames which by the way differ greatly between each other as well.

The biggest difference between ti and cf is that ti dents and cf doesn't.

You buy the best fitting, most expensive bike you can afford that you like the looks of. Ignore the material.

johnny99

Please give some examples of crappy carbon frames on the market right now. A few people in my club have the cheapo Scat carbon bike ($1400 for a complete bike with Ultegra components) and it rides pretty nice. It's not as stiff as the new Madone, but not everyone wants a really stiff bike.

I do agree that a good manufacturer/builder with an unlimited budget can make a great bike out of either material.

urbanknight

My steel Bianchi Veloce weighed 23 lb while my titanium Litespeed Classic weighs 19, but I doubt that was all in the frames (the Bianchi did have lighter wheels by about 1/3 lb though).

Rust is a problem if you live near the beach or ride in the rain a lot. The problem is what goes on inside the frame. Titanium is also useful if you don't want to be anal retentive in the cleaning of your bike after every ride.

duuuuuude

I don't think rust can be a comparative issue between Ti and Carbon. Since carbon is not a metal and would never rust...

curtisvill

Thanks for all of the insight guys, and I will try and do a bit of searching tonight to read some old threads.

John

CyLowe97

Frame weight is a bit of a red herring. Even a 2 or 3 pound frame difference doesn't account for the difference between a 16 pound bike and a 21 pound bike.

Components add up. If you get crap components to go with your superlightweight vibration dampening super stiff climbing bike, you still have a crap ride. It's great to have that frame, but it better have great components to compliment its strengths and weaknesses.

So it's not just Ti v CF v Steel v Al v Bamboo v everything else.

It's just convenient to blame the frame, since it has the biggest stickers (well... not counting Zipp wheel logos, that is).

BHBiker

I will give one crappy carbon frame...Avanti Carbonio 1.0 - test rode this before I chose the Tarmac 07 and it flexes more than a **** being pit roasted both ends by two gang *******! Stay away!

oilman_15106

Absolutly great looking bike! Who else besides Seven and Titus are working with Ti/Carbon frames? Have an old Airborne Ti/carbon seat stays & fork that rides like a dream. The only thing is that your heart should be strong when you see the price tag.

jfmckenna

IMHO I'd stay away from bonded frames of different materials. I've seen bonds brake too many times for it to be worth it and I think it's a gimmick at best. Like Hobartlemagne I went with TI because I wanted a bike that will survive a crash and last for years. I've seen carbon bikes brake in crashes that looked relatively inane. I ruined a carbon frame once when I dropped a chain and chain suck sawed a hole in the chain stay, would not have happened with steel or TI. Plus my TI bike rides like butta!

urbanknight

Read above posts. It was regarding a comment made on preferring titanium over carbon because titanium rides more like steel but doesn't rust.

mantis

I have both types of frames, and I switch off between the two all of the time. I have a Look 585 that weighs about 15.5 lbs, and a Merlin Magia that weighs about 16.8 lbs. Both are DA groups, except the Look has an FSA carbon crank. The Look has Easton Ascents IIs and the Merlin Mavic SSC SLs. I have ridden the Merlin about 7,000 mi and the Look is approaching 6,000 mi. I use Michelin ProRace tires on both.

It is hard to describe the riding differences between the two, as they are subtle. The Look is so featherlight and responsive, plenty stiff when your climbing/sprinting, but yet it has very nice ride qualities. The Merlin has a slightly more "plush" ride to it, but is also very responsive. Both are fast, and you can descend on either as fast as you have the nerve to go.

I could go back and forth discussing the two for a long time, but if I could only ride one, I would pick the Look.