pwned
12-20-07, 03:10 PM
#52
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Car analogies are so lame. You have to spend so much effort working out the details of the analogy, and it still ends up full of holes as an analogy. Since when was reasoning by analogy ever considered convincing, anyway?
Furthermore, the recumbent vs. upright "argument" is so tedious that further comment is not needed.
Furthermore, the recumbent vs. upright "argument" is so tedious that further comment is not needed.
12-20-07, 04:30 PM
#54
Burning Matches.
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I love peach pie. Pecan, not so much.
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12-20-07, 04:38 PM
#55
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To continue the analogy:
The Viper may be expected to go faster. That doesn't mean the Viper driver is a better driver. It means the machine is faster. The Viper driver knows this, (in fact, it's why he got the Viper in the first place,) but for some reason lots of minivan drivers take it personally when he passes them. To them, he has an unfair advantage. The Viper isn't a 'real' car because it can't hold 4 bikes plus luggage, nor can it negotiate 8" of snow.
Calls for the Viper driver to switch to a minivan, to 'level the playing field' will probably fall on deaf ears, and indignation when the Viper continues to pass minivans will be met with maniacal laughter. Especially since many minivans futilely challenge him to impromptu races by 'flooring it' as he passes them.
The minivan drivers have three choices:
1. Continue to drive and enjoy their minivans and not worry about the Viper or his claims of speed
2. Put a really big engine in their minivan, so they can pass the Viper in spite of the minivans' liabilities
3. Get a Viper themselves
Since buying a Viper would get the person kicked out of the minivan club, the first or second options would seem to be the most practical. Whining that the Viper driver is having too much fun is not an option, because it will only entice him to redouble his pursuit of fun.
The Viper may be expected to go faster. That doesn't mean the Viper driver is a better driver. It means the machine is faster. The Viper driver knows this, (in fact, it's why he got the Viper in the first place,) but for some reason lots of minivan drivers take it personally when he passes them. To them, he has an unfair advantage. The Viper isn't a 'real' car because it can't hold 4 bikes plus luggage, nor can it negotiate 8" of snow.
Calls for the Viper driver to switch to a minivan, to 'level the playing field' will probably fall on deaf ears, and indignation when the Viper continues to pass minivans will be met with maniacal laughter. Especially since many minivans futilely challenge him to impromptu races by 'flooring it' as he passes them.
The minivan drivers have three choices:
1. Continue to drive and enjoy their minivans and not worry about the Viper or his claims of speed
2. Put a really big engine in their minivan, so they can pass the Viper in spite of the minivans' liabilities
3. Get a Viper themselves
Since buying a Viper would get the person kicked out of the minivan club, the first or second options would seem to be the most practical. Whining that the Viper driver is having too much fun is not an option, because it will only entice him to redouble his pursuit of fun.
They then proceed to engage in boorish behavior like throwing around insults and making loud declarations of their obvious superiority in a desperate attempt to get some attention from the minivan drivers who barely know they exist.
Some of the minivan forum members are understandably offended, some find the childish behavior amusing and some are a bit confused about why a group so allegedly comfortable in their "obvious" superiority seem so desirous of attention from mere minivan drivers.
The whole "minivans futilely challenge him to impromptu races by 'flooring it' as he passes them" is mostly a Viper driver's fantasy. We don't care that much about you.
12-20-07, 04:52 PM
#56
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turn out the lights and the party is over. Close up shop, lock the thread and bring down the curtain.
Everything that needs to be said has been said by that post.
Well...that and sometimes the Minivan DOES have the course record.
Everything that needs to be said has been said by that post.
Well...that and sometimes the Minivan DOES have the course record.
To me it looks a lot more like a few members of the Viper forum, uncomprehending of why everyone else doesn't want a Viper too and recognizing that a lot more people are having a lot more fun in the minivan forum decide to crash the party.
They then proceed to engage in boorish behavior like throwing around insults and making loud declarations of their obvious superiority in a desperate attempt to get some attention from the minivan drivers who barely know they exist.
Some of the minivan forum members are understandably offended, some find the childish behavior amusing and some are a bit confused about why a group so allegedly comfortable in their "obvious" superiority seem so desirous of attention from mere minivan drivers.
The whole "minivans futilely challenge him to impromptu races by 'flooring it' as he passes them" is mostly a Viper driver's fantasy. We don't care that much about you.
They then proceed to engage in boorish behavior like throwing around insults and making loud declarations of their obvious superiority in a desperate attempt to get some attention from the minivan drivers who barely know they exist.
Some of the minivan forum members are understandably offended, some find the childish behavior amusing and some are a bit confused about why a group so allegedly comfortable in their "obvious" superiority seem so desirous of attention from mere minivan drivers.
The whole "minivans futilely challenge him to impromptu races by 'flooring it' as he passes them" is mostly a Viper driver's fantasy. We don't care that much about you.
12-20-07, 07:26 PM
#57
Recumbent Ninja
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then quit bragging that a bunch of middle aged guys are faster than traditional bikes. You already mention bents being 2nd and 3rd at RAAM for a two man team. Great...they still lost to a traditional team but they were NOT in the same category and that's something you continue to omit when you talk about it.
You made the statement in the other thread that you could beat me on a bent or a normal bike. I'd like to see it. There's a whole other level of pain if you want to line up and try.
You made the statement in the other thread that you could beat me on a bent or a normal bike. I'd like to see it. There's a whole other level of pain if you want to line up and try.
Well, if you've ever in the neighborhood, I'd be happy to ride with you. You'll just be person number 1001 who have come up to me after a race or event, or at a rest stop after their whole paceline has been passed and said "holy crap - I had no idea a bike could go that fast." I train twice a week with cat 2s and 3s and I'm often the firt one back into the parking lot, and our route includes two grades over 12% that we do twice in the route.
It's nothing new to ME, bubba. Just to you.
12-20-07, 09:28 PM
#58
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RIDER 1001....oh my....that's a BUNCH. I don't even think LANCE has rider 1001 in his belt.
TWO count them TWO grades over 12%? Oh my...I don't think I can do that.....well...maybe averaging 14% for nearly 3 miles and oh that 26% at Brasstown might or possible 3 gap, 6 gap or 3 state 3 mountain courses. There there is always the triangle of death as we like to call it.
12% for how LONG junior? 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 3 miles....beyond? Jeez...sounds hard.
WOW...CAT 2s and 3s! OMG...you have me intimidated. Man...I don't know if I have EVER seen guys THAT good or not.......well.....maybe a few.......but that's another story.
upright junior...equal machines.
You said upright or bent. I chose upright so bragging about passing roadies with your batmobile only reinforces that you can't grasp the concept of an equal playing field. You threw the gaunlet down earlier in a previous post.....you want me....I'll be at Tour De Georgia in 2008 watching the race. We can use Brasstown Bald as the spot. The course is open until the pros come up or will you be riding with them or should I say.....PASSING them?
I'll also be at 3 state this year, RAIN, and I'd like to do 6 gap.
I'll also be racing MTB races at some point and possibly a few others that I can PM you when and where they are.
Let me know when I should be intimidated by your 3 years of experience.
I almost forget...I'll also be riding up Mt. Mitchell sometime in 2008. I didn't get to do it in 2007 because of a broken leg.
Doing a 4 man 500 mile race is a great accomplishment but that's only 125 miles each and probably done in 1 or 2 lap pulls since it is a 20 mile course. Bragging about coming in 1st in a 1 team field and smudging the truth about the "course" record....not so impressive.
TWO count them TWO grades over 12%? Oh my...I don't think I can do that.....well...maybe averaging 14% for nearly 3 miles and oh that 26% at Brasstown might or possible 3 gap, 6 gap or 3 state 3 mountain courses. There there is always the triangle of death as we like to call it.
12% for how LONG junior? 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 3 miles....beyond? Jeez...sounds hard.
WOW...CAT 2s and 3s! OMG...you have me intimidated. Man...I don't know if I have EVER seen guys THAT good or not.......well.....maybe a few.......but that's another story.
upright junior...equal machines.
You said upright or bent. I chose upright so bragging about passing roadies with your batmobile only reinforces that you can't grasp the concept of an equal playing field. You threw the gaunlet down earlier in a previous post.....you want me....I'll be at Tour De Georgia in 2008 watching the race. We can use Brasstown Bald as the spot. The course is open until the pros come up or will you be riding with them or should I say.....PASSING them?
I'll also be at 3 state this year, RAIN, and I'd like to do 6 gap.
I'll also be racing MTB races at some point and possibly a few others that I can PM you when and where they are.
Let me know when I should be intimidated by your 3 years of experience.
I almost forget...I'll also be riding up Mt. Mitchell sometime in 2008. I didn't get to do it in 2007 because of a broken leg.
Doing a 4 man 500 mile race is a great accomplishment but that's only 125 miles each and probably done in 1 or 2 lap pulls since it is a 20 mile course. Bragging about coming in 1st in a 1 team field and smudging the truth about the "course" record....not so impressive.
Well, if you've ever in the neighborhood, I'd be happy to ride with you. You'll just be person number 1001 who have come up to me after a race or event, or at a rest stop after their whole paceline has been passed and said "holy crap - I had no idea a bike could go that fast." I train twice a week with cat 2s and 3s and I'm often the firt one back into the parking lot, and our route includes two grades over 12% that we do twice in the route.
It's nothing new to ME, bubba. Just to you.
It's nothing new to ME, bubba. Just to you.
Last edited by Rutnick; 12-20-07 at 09:34 PM.
12-20-07, 09:51 PM
#60
I eat carbide.
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Originally Posted by twahl
Considering that the frame of mind presented here is that recumbent riders tend to be bearded dope smoking, sandle wearing, fat guys riding mobile recliners, I think it could just as easily prove just the opposite.
uh......
Meanwhile my team consisted of:
me: third year rider - 35.
teammate 1: 45-50 years old. Got his first bike in April. Did first century in August.
Teammate 2: on a long wheelbase bent, nearly 40 pounds. 50 years old
teammate 3 - 57 years old and riding with lung cancer at the time.
me: third year rider - 35.
teammate 1: 45-50 years old. Got his first bike in April. Did first century in August.
Teammate 2: on a long wheelbase bent, nearly 40 pounds. 50 years old
teammate 3 - 57 years old and riding with lung cancer at the time.
...yeah....
On a lighter note I had an operator form my shop ask me just the other day why I didn't ride a recumbent. I said, "Because I'm not a pot smoking Democrat you f'n hippie!"
...then me and all of my Republican industrialist co-workers told that Hispanic immigrant to get back to work.
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12-20-07, 09:53 PM
#61
I eat carbide.
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Oh and watching old hippies argue about the correct usage of the term pwned by feverishly typing away at their MACs is...well....sad.
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12-20-07, 09:57 PM
#62
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12-20-07, 10:38 PM
#63
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OMG you are such a flaming ******. If you're *that* worked up over this, we can always go toe-to-toe and forget the freaking bikes. Whatever gets you off. I only included the grade of the hills I do because you were talking about my races being on flat courses you ******. And it's a decent climb. 1.3 miles each loop.
And I'm not claiming to be better than everyone here. Just better than *YOU*. Upright is fine. I always finish very respectably during the bike portions of my triathlons, so I have no doubt I can beat the piss out of a schmuck like you.
************************************************************************************
And I'm not claiming to be better than everyone here. Just better than *YOU*. Upright is fine. I always finish very respectably during the bike portions of my triathlons, so I have no doubt I can beat the piss out of a schmuck like you.
************************************************************************************
RIDER 1001....oh my....that's a BUNCH. I don't even think LANCE has rider 1001 in his belt.
TWO count them TWO grades over 12%? Oh my...I don't think I can do that.....well...maybe averaging 14% for nearly 3 miles and oh that 26% at Brasstown might or possible 3 gap, 6 gap or 3 state 3 mountain courses. There there is always the triangle of death as we like to call it.
12% for how LONG junior? 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 3 miles....beyond? Jeez...sounds hard.
WOW...CAT 2s and 3s! OMG...you have me intimidated. Man...I don't know if I have EVER seen guys THAT good or not.......well.....maybe a few.......but that's another story.
upright junior...equal machines.
You said upright or bent. I chose upright so bragging about passing roadies with your batmobile only reinforces that you can't grasp the concept of an equal playing field. You threw the gaunlet down earlier in a previous post.....you want me....I'll be at Tour De Georgia in 2008 watching the race. We can use Brasstown Bald as the spot. The course is open until the pros come up or will you be riding with them or should I say.....PASSING them?
I'll also be at 3 state this year, RAIN, and I'd like to do 6 gap.
I'll also be racing MTB races at some point and possibly a few others that I can PM you when and where they are.
Let me know when I should be intimidated by your 3 years of experience.
I almost forget...I'll also be riding up Mt. Mitchell sometime in 2008. I didn't get to do it in 2007 because of a broken leg.
Doing a 4 man 500 mile race is a great accomplishment but that's only 125 miles each and probably done in 1 or 2 lap pulls since it is a 20 mile course. Bragging about coming in 1st in a 1 team field and smudging the truth about the "course" record....not so impressive.
TWO count them TWO grades over 12%? Oh my...I don't think I can do that.....well...maybe averaging 14% for nearly 3 miles and oh that 26% at Brasstown might or possible 3 gap, 6 gap or 3 state 3 mountain courses. There there is always the triangle of death as we like to call it.
12% for how LONG junior? 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 3 miles....beyond? Jeez...sounds hard.
WOW...CAT 2s and 3s! OMG...you have me intimidated. Man...I don't know if I have EVER seen guys THAT good or not.......well.....maybe a few.......but that's another story.
upright junior...equal machines.
You said upright or bent. I chose upright so bragging about passing roadies with your batmobile only reinforces that you can't grasp the concept of an equal playing field. You threw the gaunlet down earlier in a previous post.....you want me....I'll be at Tour De Georgia in 2008 watching the race. We can use Brasstown Bald as the spot. The course is open until the pros come up or will you be riding with them or should I say.....PASSING them?
I'll also be at 3 state this year, RAIN, and I'd like to do 6 gap.
I'll also be racing MTB races at some point and possibly a few others that I can PM you when and where they are.
Let me know when I should be intimidated by your 3 years of experience.
I almost forget...I'll also be riding up Mt. Mitchell sometime in 2008. I didn't get to do it in 2007 because of a broken leg.
Doing a 4 man 500 mile race is a great accomplishment but that's only 125 miles each and probably done in 1 or 2 lap pulls since it is a 20 mile course. Bragging about coming in 1st in a 1 team field and smudging the truth about the "course" record....not so impressive.
12-20-07, 10:52 PM
#64
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I tend to think of bent riders as engineer types who have never seen a joint and think that Ayn Rand wasn't bat shiite crazy. Just about the opposite of the old hippy. Oh, and never using a Mac, but they'd probably spell it MAC. All about efficiency.
12-20-07, 10:53 PM
#65
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12-21-07, 01:43 AM
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wow...kung fu talk and *****exual references from you. A 1.3 mile loop....WOW. First, you are better than cat 2 and 3 riders and now just me? What about the other 1001 riders?
Looks like you are the one getting all worked up
Looks like you are the one getting all worked up
OMG you are such a flaming ******. If you're *that* worked up over this, we can always go toe-to-toe and forget the freaking bikes. Whatever gets you off. I only included the grade of the hills I do because you were talking about my races being on flat courses you ******. And it's a decent climb. 1.3 miles each loop.
And I'm not claiming to be better than everyone here. Just better than *YOU*. Upright is fine. I always finish very respectably during the bike portions of my triathlons, so I have no doubt I can beat the piss out of a schmuck like you.
And I'm not claiming to be better than everyone here. Just better than *YOU*. Upright is fine. I always finish very respectably during the bike portions of my triathlons, so I have no doubt I can beat the piss out of a schmuck like you.
Last edited by Rutnick; 12-21-07 at 01:50 AM.
12-21-07, 09:41 AM
#70
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12-21-07, 11:53 AM
#71
Solo Rider, always DFL
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This seems like the kind of thing where the rules governing pros and racing entries make the rest of the cycling world disregard something that may actually be a better mousetrap for a pretty sizeable proportion of the population.
Hell, given that every fourth thread seems to be about finding a saddle that isn't misery inducing, maybe sitting in a chair, not wearing something that feels like a diaper might be a pretty good idea.
FWIW, I have an upright, haven't ridden recumbent ever, and wouldn't try it simply because I have to stop way too often for lights/cars/stop signs etc. where I live.
Hell, given that every fourth thread seems to be about finding a saddle that isn't misery inducing, maybe sitting in a chair, not wearing something that feels like a diaper might be a pretty good idea.
FWIW, I have an upright, haven't ridden recumbent ever, and wouldn't try it simply because I have to stop way too often for lights/cars/stop signs etc. where I live.
12-21-07, 12:37 PM
#73
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If guys would have sit bones measured and get a saddle based on that......
Nothing wrong with the contraption and even the majority of the ones riding them for the most part....the real issue has been addressed earlier in this thread.
Nothing wrong with the contraption and even the majority of the ones riding them for the most part....the real issue has been addressed earlier in this thread.
This seems like the kind of thing where the rules governing pros and racing entries make the rest of the cycling world disregard something that may actually be a better mousetrap for a pretty sizeable proportion of the population.
Hell, given that every fourth thread seems to be about finding a saddle that isn't misery inducing, maybe sitting in a chair, not wearing something that feels like a diaper might be a pretty good idea.
FWIW, I have an upright, haven't ridden recumbent ever, and wouldn't try it simply because I have to stop way too often for lights/cars/stop signs etc. where I live.
Hell, given that every fourth thread seems to be about finding a saddle that isn't misery inducing, maybe sitting in a chair, not wearing something that feels like a diaper might be a pretty good idea.
FWIW, I have an upright, haven't ridden recumbent ever, and wouldn't try it simply because I have to stop way too often for lights/cars/stop signs etc. where I live.
12-21-07, 02:33 PM
#74
Senior Member
This seems like the kind of thing where the rules governing pros and racing entries make the rest of the cycling world disregard something that may actually be a better mousetrap for a pretty sizeable proportion of the population.
Hell, given that every fourth thread seems to be about finding a saddle that isn't misery inducing, maybe sitting in a chair, not wearing something that feels like a diaper might be a pretty good idea.
FWIW, I have an upright, haven't ridden recumbent ever, and wouldn't try it simply because I have to stop way too often for lights/cars/stop signs etc. where I live.
Hell, given that every fourth thread seems to be about finding a saddle that isn't misery inducing, maybe sitting in a chair, not wearing something that feels like a diaper might be a pretty good idea.
FWIW, I have an upright, haven't ridden recumbent ever, and wouldn't try it simply because I have to stop way too often for lights/cars/stop signs etc. where I live.
Myself? I choose road cycling (with a diamond frame) for no good reason at all. I enjoy it. I seem to be okay at it. I have fun with it. Good enough for me.
EDIT: It's the HPV people's problem because it would be just stupid to mix recumbents with road bicycles in a mass start or time trial race. They race in different classes. The beef that the HPV people have over the road racing cyclists not allowing them to join in is just over publicity and visibility. Recumbents are truly in a different class than road bikes, so they have to compete separately. It's not about how fast the person goes. It's about who has the better skills as an athlete.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
12-21-07, 05:42 PM
#75
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This might be. But this is the HPV people's problem. They need to put on more races and get more people to pay attention to them. Better... worse... it's all relative. There are strengths and weaknesses to both styles of cycling. Pick your poison. Or alternatively... pick your passion.
Myself? I choose road cycling (with a diamond frame) for no good reason at all. I enjoy it. I seem to be okay at it. I have fun with it. Good enough for me.
EDIT: It's the HPV people's problem because it would be just stupid to mix recumbents with road bicycles in a mass start or time trial race. They race in different classes. The beef that the HPV people have over the road racing cyclists not allowing them to join in is just over publicity and visibility. Recumbents are truly in a different class than road bikes, so they have to compete separately. It's not about how fast the person goes. It's about who has the better skills as an athlete.
Myself? I choose road cycling (with a diamond frame) for no good reason at all. I enjoy it. I seem to be okay at it. I have fun with it. Good enough for me.
EDIT: It's the HPV people's problem because it would be just stupid to mix recumbents with road bicycles in a mass start or time trial race. They race in different classes. The beef that the HPV people have over the road racing cyclists not allowing them to join in is just over publicity and visibility. Recumbents are truly in a different class than road bikes, so they have to compete separately. It's not about how fast the person goes. It's about who has the better skills as an athlete.
I think a big reason for the conflict between 'bent and road riders is revealed in your claim that "It's not about how fast the person goes. It's about who has the better skills as an athlete". For 'bent riders, the opposite seems to be true. This is why road riders won't compete unless it's on a level playing field and 'bent riders think that's ridiculous. The goals are different.