Did Ghandi ride a Mercier?

Mr Botto

Please rethink your statement.

"Taking liberties with the truth" would be if anyone said
1] in all cases Moto warranty is better than Trek
2] in all cases Trek warranty is better than Moto
3] or 'No - warranties can not be compared'

the only truthful short answer is
YES

Mr?

No need. I chose the words I wanted to use.

Incorrect.

You could have simply written that they were similar, but not the same.

You'd get a lot less flack here if you would just admit the obvious, i.e. your bikes are cheap enough, that it doesn't really matter if they have a lifetime warranty.

correct.

Now, start bloody selling your stuff in Aus Mike. I'm sick of paying a distributor's premium.

Hmmmmmmm. I wont bite.

This time.

YES
you are corect
I could have said 'the warranties are similar; but not the same'
that might have been a better answer
I was trying to be funny by stating the obvious, I should give up my hopes of becoming a professional comic

HOWEVER, it does matter that our bikes have warranties
it matters to me
AND MORE OVER
it matters to me that the out of pocket cost to consumers for anything is as low as can be reasonably done.
That is way we sell our customers replacement parts on things they have worn out or tornup at below dealer cost all the time. I am very senstive to the cost paid by cyclists and want everyone on the best equipment they can get at the lowest price; but I also want them to have the comfort of a good warranty. Granted - as I have stated - DEFECTS ARE RARE ON ALL BIKES -- but many consumers feel better with a warranty.

Do it!

So, to sum up, Trek and BD warranties are equivalent. Or would everyone like to continue for 5 or 6 more pages?

OK Mike. Fine.

Out of curiosity, any advice for the people who have issues with the headset installation on the Bottecchias?

http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=380171

I had not seen that thread
and I have never installed aheadset in that frame

But my shop has built lots of them up
using the same headset that is specd on the complete bikes [which we have sold lots of with no issue]

here is exact spec from factory spec sheet:
HEAD SET (HP) T FSA ORBIT IS IS2 1-1/8" INTEGRATED OS 36/45 ACB FOR 45mm OD HEADTUBE,ALLOY H/P W/6.5mm TOP COVER,CANE CREEK COMPATIBLE ( H:8.2mm),BLK

my understanding is - Jeff at bikeisland has or can get these for anyone that asks.
I think there maybe a small gap after installed
but it certainly is nothing big enough that I ever noticed it
I think all ADK frames use a similar design

I hope thos helps
if not -- Jeff can help anyone who got a frame out with getting the proper headset

Consider that the bike industry itself has benefited greatly from the trickle down. The whole adoption of light metals and composites was made possible because the design, materials and fabrication technologies were already developed for aerospace and defense applications. The Taiwanese have been particularly innovative in getting the costs way down to create mass consumer markets. Comparatively, the schwag end of the bike industry really has little to point to in terms of technical innovation, therefore, there is little to differentiate one maker over another except how clever they can market to the uninformed. What's better, any Cervelo, Trek, Look, Merlin, ...Motobecane? It's like perfume - which smells better? .....How innovative is BikesDirect?

Ahhhh Fuhgedaboudit.....

Paying attention? Hell no, I tried my damnedest to sidetrack this thread with a totally unrelated topic. :D

Doesn't matter much to me. I don't have, or plan to purchase, a BD bike. I do have a Trek mtb, however. Can't see how I'd ever manage to break it, as its built like a tank.

I don't know, but I'll bet he was a helluva climber.

http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/images/...rs/ghandi3.bmp

Rasmussen would have to bulk up to look that big however.

Just to clear up something....

I just got off the phone with my Trek rep. Here are the facts about the much discussed Crash Replacement program.

First, let me say personally, I strongly recommend anyone who rides high-end bikes to purchase a full replacement cost rider on their homeowners or renters insurance for their bike(s). It is very inexpensive and would offset replacement costs should something unforseen happen to your bikes.

That said, what happens with Trek is, let's say you damage your Madone 5.2. You take it to the dealer who does a few simple field tests to help rule out strictly cosmetic damage. These frames are very well designed and can take a lot before they fail or are damaged. Photos are taken of the damage and sent to the warranty dept. at Trek for evaluation. If it is decided that the frame cannot be ridden safely or repaired, the dealer is credited $350 that the customer may apply any way they see fit. If they wanted a new frame, the price from me would be around $1500. Significantly less than the $2749 on the bikesdirect.com site.

As a sidenote, I have sent photos to Trek with descriptions of the crash and had them say "crash or no crash, it shouldn't have broken like this" and sent a new frame gratis. I have yet to administer a Crash Replacement claim, even though I have certainly submitted some crashed bikes.

Now, even if you had to pay the $1500 but had an insurance rider, your out-of-pocket expense would be only your deductable(if you had one). I have had two customers thank me for recommending that coverage. One pulled a little too far into the garage and crushed his 5900 against the back wall, another drove into the garage with his Project One Madone 5.9 on the roof rack on the way home from picking it up.:eek: He was on his cell phone calling up a friend to go riding with him.... That one was ugly. <shakes head> Insurance saved the day both times.

So....there y'are....:)

My guess would be that if you totaled a Trek CF frame, you'd have bigger issues than how much its replacement was going to cost. i.e., how much would it cost to replace you. To wit, forget the homeowner's insurance blather. Have your major medial and life insurance in place.

True, true...:lol: But only if you're actually on it when you break it! Thankfully, none of my customers have been.

Yes - here we are
Warranties have things they say - words you can enforce
and then there are dealers that stand behind those to some degree or another

If a consumer is 'comparing' warranties they normally should go on what it states; not what the dealer says he'll do. Many reasons for this, of course.

Good dealers; like bikewise and myself often go beyond what a warranty says. But we do not have to. I have always given away labor on warranties that say 'labor is not covered'. Both the Trek and Motobecane warranty do not cover labor. But nice guys like bikewise and myself often do.

What is more interesting here is not the difference in price that it costs a customer when they crash and make useless a CF frame. What is most interesting to me is how often the number $350 comes up.

If someone crashes a Moto Immortal and nedds a new frame - we charge them $350 for a new frame. Trek credits dealer $350. Several other brands use this $350 figure for things like dealer credit or replacement etc. Do you wonder where it comes from? [I of course do not]

Now you see CF framesets all the time with MSRP of $2000, $2500, $2295, $3195, $1795, etc - Specialized, Felt, Scott, Cannondale, Jamis, ~~ should I go on naming CF frames made in China?

Now it makes me wonder: Why do I get ragged on for putting an MSRP of $3595 on a DuraAce bike with full WCS and moncq CF frame with sub 340 gram moncq CF fork? Maybe it is just me. Maybe I would be doing better if I moved that frame to China with everyone else? [just kidding]

It is all ralated; costs are costs; I try to keep my expenses down so I can keep my value as high as possable. But at the same time offering the best service and warranty protection I know of. The more I think about it; the more I prefer the Motobecane warranty to the Trek one from a consumers point of view. The Motobecane warranty is most likely to keep costs low for cyclists, by reducing prices on the things most likely to happen. My guess is; even a dealer as nice as bikewise will not sell a consumer a new CF fork or frt wheel that they crashed for under dealer cost [just guessing, no proof]. We do favors like that all the time.

Now back to the original question:
"Does the Motobecane warranty compare to the Trek warranty?"
my answer is still YES
but I can add - they are different; each consumer should decide which is likely to mean the most to them
I prefer the Moto one for covering most likely effects
HOWEVER, ALL SHOULD BEAR IN MIND _ BICYCLES DEFECTS ARE REALLY RARE

wow, a topic like this can go on forever
especially in the winter

Yes, apples and oranges. Both are round, hand-held edible objects. I get it.

But why is the Motobecane USA warranty different than the Mercier warranty? Is it because there are no CF Mercier frames (that I can see) ? None of the bikedirect Mercier bikes seem to say anything about warranty, although I was able to find the cyclesmercier.com site through an ebay Mercier for sale by sprtymama (not certain of spelling).

And more importantly, in the group buy thread stickied above. You are asked directly at least twice what the warranty was on these frames (once for Moto and once for Bottecchia ). I did see a response that stated that any problems with the Ti frames would be "taken care of", which is a bit more generous than the Moto CF warranty on the website.

People discussing warranty on the group buy thread seem to believe that a full "warranty" is in effect (link1, link2) , but I can't help but wonder what the buyers of these frames are actually entitled to. Perhaps some would say that for that price, you can't expect much of a warranty.

Mike: You generally seem to be a stand-up guy when it comes to these issues and I do hope that the rare issue is dealt with fairly and expeditiously.

>>Perhaps some would say that for that price, you can't expect much of a warranty. <<

Actually, the only reason I'm buying a Chinese made Ti frame from a company like BD is because I'm confident there will be a warranty if it ever snaps or cracks. Is that niaeve on my part? The odds are I'll never find out because the frame won't break. But if I read very negative things about BD warranty on line it might scare me off. So far the experiences with Mike's firm seem overwhelmingly positive.

Where is the damn Kilo TT Pro already?

Thanks; I try to be upfront and transparent

Mercier has only Metal Frames; easier to warranty metal frames; as there is a clear why to see what happened if a frame is ever returned

CF issue is different; is a crack an impact or a defect? Very hard to say; Since defects are so rare, most cracked CF frames are from impacts. But who wants to argue with customers?? Easier and fairer to just get the customer a frame real cheap and install it for free [about $100 to $150 of labor]

Ti frames are from the top maker in Asia [Taiwan's leading QC builder in Ti] -- there will be zero deects. And if there were one; the customer would pay nothing. I am not going to take on this Ti project without going after bringing the top reputation of high quality Ti at a super price to Motobecane. Beleive it or not - the Ti line-up will be developed without any expectation of profit. Our road, XC mountain, cyclo cross, and 29er Ti will be designed to deliver the top quality available at any where near the price.

Bottecchia frames will be warrantied if they are defective in the first year or so. After that I think I can assume any issues are due to impacts. ADK does not produce many frames with defects; and almost all with issues would be on models where weight is pushed to sub 1 kg

Kestrel - hard to beat the backing from ASI [Fuji, Kestrel, and SE are owned by Ideal - who is famous for customer support]

again. having a warranty is great BUT VERY FEW HIGH GRADE BIKES EVER HAVE DEFECTS OF ANY KIND

thanks for your faith and order
But please let me point out
No Motobecane is made in China

True I could have saved an easy 20% on the Ti frame by using a lower cost maker in Ti -- but that is not really my style. QC must be fantastic for me to go thru with the commitment of this project on Ti.

The quality of Ti Motobecanes will shock everyone that sees or rides them; I am sure of this.
And when people learn the price they may faint!
In fact, Ti Moto buyers should tell people they paid double - it will still seem like a deal!

By this time next year, at least 2 road, 2 mountain, and one cyclo cross will have been reveiwed by magazines. And several hundred will be on the road & trail. I think the point that Ti can be an affordable option will be driven home by then.

Too late! Pcad already granted Taiwan to the government in Beijing in an effort to further drive down bike schwag prices. ;)

(And thanks for replying to my warranty question.)

This is the fun part of Pcad's Global Inflation Control Program. The other parts all suck.