Camilo

Not really. I've had toe overlap on every single road bike I've owned since the early 70s. Some were a little too big, some were a little too small, but all had toe overlap. I've always considered it normal and simply a fact of life that only has to be considered making very sharp turns - i.e. at very low speed. Back in the day, everyone I knew considered it a normal factor, the unusual case being when it didn't happen.

Maybe for tall people, it is an unusual thing, and maybe your statements above are true, but for me (5-8 or so, owned 52 - 56 cm frames over the years), it is simply a fact of life and has nothing to do with the frame being too small, or trying to fit like I'm racing (which I do not).

JoeyBike

Thanks a lot folks! Great feedback. Thanks for taking the time. I will now stop worrying about it.

-Joey

dannyg1 

I guess that I have to play the contrarian on this issue. I've got a couple of bikes with toe overlap and on one of them, the overlap is enough that my toe can get in the beginning of the spoke nipples. When I start up, I'm on a busy NY City avenue (more like an expressway than not) and the first crank push is an important one when cabs are around.

While I've never crashed in this situation, I've come close enough a couple of times that when I ride the Serotta, I don't clip in until I'm at stable speed. All the times I've felt the nipples at my toebox on the shoes I've been scared witless, knowing that should one catch, I'll lose all momentum and surely dump. Not acceptable, even as a risk, in aggressive traffic.

Danny

TideCrazy3193

I ride a 56 and every road bike i have ever ridden has had toe overlap. Only comes into play (as the other posters have mentioned) when i am turning completely around on the road. Otherwise, if this causes a problem at some speed i would say that something has gone awry.

merlinextraligh

I'm trying to understand the physics of this, and why you're turning the front wheel so far thatyou shoe is on the inside of the wheel.

Whenever I've hit my foot on the tire, it's been just that on the tire, with my foot on the outside of the wheel. Shoe rubs on tire, no big deal.

I'm having trouble imagining the manuever where you've got the wheel turned so far that your foot is going into the wheel on the inside.

I think it's alos somewhat telling that in 2 pages and multiple posters no one has recounted an incident of a fall.

If toe overlap presents an unacceptable risk, then clipless pedals must be a sure death sentence.

dannyg1 

Considering some of the falls I've done while clipped in, I'd have to agree that clippd pedals are remarkably dangerous, at least until you've had your first two years on them.

I haven't really thought about exactly what I was doing during the foot in spoke nipples thing, but suffice it to say that if you're not moving at traffic speed on a NYC avenue, then cars are going to run you down. Drivers are merciless and they dislike bikes 'in their way'. So, thinking about it in that context, I'm pretty sure that I'm pushing down on my right crank, while standing tall (to make myself more visible) and keeping an eye behind me. As I do that I tend to veer into the road and correct for it quickly, while moving pretty slowly.

It's impossible to look both in front of yourself and behind concurrently, don't you know.

Awareness test: https://www.dothetest.co.uk/

kill.cactus

I guess since a lot of "sporty" geometries have the front wheel really tucked in you could go ahead and use a curved fork for when you don't need the razor sharp response - that should make it safer.

steaktaco

Two years? Wow.

recursive

I can kind of see it. Even after riding thousands of miles, and thinking I had mastererd the pedals, I experienced a stationary tip-over that I *claim* I would never do now.

The thing about putting your foot in a wheel when starting from a stop totally baffles me though. I can't understand how this can be an issue. Don't steer that way. If you must, don't pedal that way.

But I guess I shouldn't hold everyone to my amazing level of bike handling skills. (I've fallen a few times this winter, and some would probably say that it is blindingly obvious that one should not ride on ice. So it goes.)

dannyg1 

Typical, these two posts. Yes, two years before you're truly used to clipless. No, you'll never feel safe riding slowly in a trafficked lane and I'm not going to push cart to start speed..

Me?, I've been riding for eons and do 300 miles a week. I'm experienced enough to not only know that I'm a better rider than most 'real' riders, but can speak directly from riding experience about things that can/do go wrong.

Put some miles in guys, then you'll know. Time in the saddle makes for more close calls.

Danny

recursive

Yeah, if only I put in some real miles, I'd start having more problems putting my toe in my wheel.

When I first started riding fixed gear, I did have some difficulty with toe overlap. Then I learned to time my turns better. I've had more than enough close calls, and actual events. None of them were related to toe overlap though.

Despite your claims of real miles, I still think it's possible for you to learn to ride in such a way as to eliminate all the toe overlap. You might have to put some more time in the saddle though. On the other hand, maybe everyone else in this thread doesn't really ride and is wrong.

Duke of Kent

Congrats. 300 miles in a week is what I do during the winter, for base training, on my rollers. Time converted to distance.

On the weekends, I like to do 100km criteriums with a team listed in the top 20 here: https://www.usacycling.org/nrc/2006_nrc_men_team.pdf. I also enjoy long walks on the beach, and classic literature.

Oh, and it takes about two weeks to get used to clipless pedals. Sure, I fell over my first day using them. Close calls up to 10 days later. But I haven't fallen over since the first week.

Psimet2001 

+1 - on all accounts. I have toe lap on all of my bikes because....I am short. Period. It is most fun on my fixed gear. It has never once caused me to fall.

It freaks out every single "tall" rider that has ever tried out one of my bikes in a parking lot. Must be amazing to never have to encounter it....then again it must be amazing to be able to put dishes in your cabinets without having to stand on your tip-toes.

If you can't understand why anyone would ever ride with toe-lap...it's because you're too tall to comprehend it.

Psimet2001 

Hmmm...this combined with feeling nipples on your toes box ...means you're doing it wrong.

The only way to physically touch the nipples on the wheel without the tire kicking your shoe out of the way is if you're riding without cleats/clips, or have your celats positioned in the middle of your arch. Your foot would have to overhang the wheel so much that that the tire would just strike the crank/pedal instead.

Just because you've been doing the wrong thing for "eons" doesn't make it right.

I seriously question anyone who says they have problems with feeling comfortable on clipless after 1 week. Two years implies that there might be some mental blocks or coordination issues on your end.

Fixed.

In general don't throw down "eons" and mileage to imply you know better than anyone else on here...because you'll lose that pissing match every time. There is always someone better, faster, or more experienced.

dannyg1 

Dude,

This:

>>Two years implies that there might be some mental blocks or coordination issues on your end.<<

is so friggin insulting I don't even know where to begin!

Go creep back into your s'hole and talk to your ugly ass pug avatar. The two of you *require* better manners.

And to the other guy:

Riding clips on rollers teaches you nothing about riding or clips. Have fun and please, avoid me!! You Gods of the overlap and clip f**ks!

Danny

Duke of Kent

My comprehension-challenged friend:

My points:
1) 300 miles is NOT a lot
2) I race against professional bike racers -- I can handle my bike, thank you.
3) I can ride a road bike, mountain bike, or track bike with no issues using clipless pedals.
4) Overlap is only an issue if you're pulling TINY circles. In which case, you'd be better off taking a foot off the pedals, planting it, lifting your rear wheel off the ground, and turning a 180.

merlinextraligh

Pot calling the kettle soot covered?

Danny,
I think the reason you're getting this reaction is that none of the rest of us have experienced anything like you're describing, or have found the toe overlap we have experienced to be a problem.

No reason for the discourse not to be civil. It seems like though in you effort to support your position, you've walked yourself out on a limb. ( of course I've never done anything like that )

steaktaco

ZOMG LOLS.

Screw Netflix. This is a great thread for the trainer.

2 years. LOL.

caloso

Anybody ever ride with old fashioned clips and straps? Now, that was a pain in the ass. You'd have to reach down and loosen the strap with your hand in order to get your foot out at the light or get really good at trackstanding.

Switching to clipless was a breeze. "All I have to do is kick my heel out a little? Sweet!" Takes a couple of rides to get used to it. It's automatic after a dozen rides.

Psimet2001 

+1 - Yes I did and I totally agree.

cmh

+1. You can be halfway to the ground on clipless pedals and just twist your foot and put it down.

gfrance

I still do on my fixed gear for commuting but never tight enough that I can't just pull out. (still, I pretty much hate them, but can't be bothered carrying and switching out shoes.)