ManBearPig

can someone please remind me why this is so. playing around with my cleat position in front of a mirror and notice right knee moves out then back in as it moves from 9 to 3.

thanks.

AEO

your joints and bones aren't straight.

If it doesn't hurt, I wouldn't worry about it.

ManBearPig

Well, it hurt before the change but that's why I'm changing. Have had IT band issues (or something masquerading as that) for 2 seasons now. Experimenting. Friend suggested that my cleat-far-forward position is old-school, and found some sources that corroborate that. So pulling the cleats back to try on tomorro'w ride. Also trying to set both cleats toe-out since I pronate, though I have seen/heard/experienced arguments on both sides for whether or not that's right.

We'll see how tomorrow goes.

johnny99

Knee or ankle wobbles are inefficient and can lead to injury. If you are in pain, injury is not far off. Fixing wobbles is not always easy. Sometimes moving your cleats back can help. Wedges can also help, but figuring out how much you need is complicated. Some people can just mentally concentrate on keeping their knees in, but that mostly works for people who had seriously bad technique rather than seriously bad bike fit.

terrymorse 

My chiropractor ride buddy said my knee wobble was caused by weak hip stabilizer muscles. She gave me some exercises to do, and the knee wobble went away (mostly).

Pendergast

Are you duck-footed? Toes point outward when you walk?

JoeOxfordCT

I believe it matters less what your knees are doing on the way up than what they're doing while you're pushing down. Ideally you want as straight a line as possible from your knees down through your ankles/feet when pushing down. I have flat feet and one surgically repaired broken heel. My knees have a tendency to rock inwards towards the top tube on the way down....wedges have corrected this....trying to "hold" yourself in the proper position will always fail as you tire....pain & injury will eventually follow. That's the whole point of wedges...to have a mechanical adjustment so that your legs/knees/ankles will track correctly on their own so that the only thing you have to concentrate on is not getting dropped...

dzinehaus

could seat set back and crank arm length adjustment change factors in the knee wobble?
I do like the hip flexor comment, yoga and pilates for those ohhh so tiny muscles that we didn't know we had really helps.

kk4df

I had some knee problems on one leg, and ended up using some cleat wedges. They seemed to help a little, but other adjustments were done about the same time.

roadwarrior

Towlie...you might need a shim(s) depending on how much you pronate. Lemond Lewedge makes a device that a fitter uses to determine this...if you pronate when you walk or run, your foot compensates...same as if you run, your running shoes flex so your foot/leg rolls into a "flat" or straight position. With a bike shoe with a hard sole, you put your foot into the "Straight" position on the pedal when clipped in which eliminates that need to have knee flexing side to side.

I do that with my right foot and have a shim under the cleat, and I also have two pedal spacers to move my right pedal out a bit from the crank to straighten out my leg properly. But I had a professional do this for me.

BTW...this could also be due to your seat not being high enough. You can't get your leg over the top, so you flex it out to make space.

dekindy

Lemond LeWedges will do the trick. Also you can use more wedges to compensate for leg length discrepancies. In this case you lay them over each other so that two wedges give you equal thickness.

My fitter put one wedge on one shoe and two on the other. Brought my knees perfectly in line. No amount of concentration can do that. These and getting the right overall bike fit increased my output by about 8%.

cccorlew

+ 1 on seat too low as a possible problem. Sometimes just a few mm make a difference.
Can you raise it jut a bit?

FormerBMX'er

My right knee seems to move outward a bit at the top of the pedal stroke. I've put this down to my right leg being slightly longer than the left. Moving the right cleat back a few mils seemed to help; no knee pains to speak of though.

DaveSANYYZ

My left knee moves outward on the upstroke. My bike fitter (also a physio therapist) told me to concentrate on applying pressure to the big/2nd toes for the next little while, as well as some exercises. She didn't change my cleat position to compensate. I think mine has improved a little (only about a month or so).

grahny

I had this issue when I switched cranks to one with less Q factor (never had any pain though). I adjusted my cleats and raised my saddle ever so slightly and it's gone away (I should mention I do have a longer right femur and already use lemond lewedges to compensate on the left side). I can see that my knees are tracking perfectly inline now with my pedal stroke. YMMV

ManBearPig

FYI, moving the cleats back (behind ball of foot) was a justifiable experiment after having tried everything but voodoo over the last year...but I ended up in pain even sooner than usual. After only about 10-12 miles into the mundane 50+ mile ride I used to take for granted being able to do. I moved the cleats back forward.

I have tried everything from meds to cleat position to saddle position to sports massage to Active Release (ART), to orthopod consultation...I've tried it all. Moving seat up, moving seat down. Fore and aft. I've tried it incrementally, and I've tried it in larger increments. I've tried pulling up instead of pushing down, I've tried pushing forward instead of pushing down.

I've tried stretching, I've tried the foam roller, I've tried hip abduction, I've tried hip adduction, I've tried frigging EVERYTHING.

My left leg fortunately hbas been trouble free. I can sit there and do 1-legged drills all day and keep up with my group, with a nice smooth pedal stroke. Then I add my right foot, and I can usually count on a flare-up on my weekend rides.

My next step is to find out if my insurance covers MRI.

Dubbayoo

Do you wear Specialized shoes?

ManBearPig

sidi.

Tequila Joe

+3 on the LeWedges. I had a wobbly knee that was corrected with LeWedges.

johnny99

Does "EVERYTHING" include orthotics and/or wedges?

ManBearPig

Oh, I forgot to include that in the above laundry list -- yes, I've already tried wedges.

But I am off-topic at this point -- I am complaining about my general IT band pain, though my original post was about knee wobble. The wobble ain't that bad, but the pain is.

Gerrylightning

I do and have a similar problem but not to severe.

lee_eldridge

I know this thread is over a month old... but...

MBP: I have had the EXACT same problem. This is what I noticed in no particular order.

1. I notice that my pedal stroke on my left leg is not straight up and down.
2. I notice that 90% of the pressure I put on the pedals is on the outer part of the sole.
3. My left foot is noticeable flatter and has very little support. It rolls to the inside easily.
4. Left shin muscle pain/cramp/inflammation during/after a ride and ESPECIALLY while running.
5. Severe outer knee pain and burning sensation.
6. Underdevelopment of my left inner quad muscle compared to the right (cant put pressure on the inside of my foot)
7. 20% less wattage from my left leg. ( I know, crazy huh )
8. Left ankle pain/popping while running.

I've actually had several fittings done by a couple local shops, and they've never made any major adjustments. I actually was diagnosed with ITBS and chondromalacia, although they've never told me what it stemmed from.

One day I noticed while running, that my left knee pain and ankle pain/popping went away all of a sudden. I was running on the road and the road was sloping to the left maybe 1-2°. I didn't think anyhting until I started heading back on the same side of the road, and my pain got worse, because now it was sloping down 1-2° to the right, causing my foot to effectively roll inward even more. that's what gave me the idea of a shim, which I made, and it worked great.

This made me start thinking about my pain while cycling, and the makeshift wedge fixed 95% of the pain, however I think it's going to take some time to heal the damage I've done just pushing through it for so many seasons. Good luck!