Industrial

Tiagra is wrong because it's low end and this is one of those esoteric hobbies(reminds me of high end audio with less fat people) where very slight differences between products become blown out of proportion. It's functionally a fine product that's about right in the middle of Shimanos line up. Nothing any true enthusiasts would touch with a ten foot pole.

umd

The bottom line is that the biggest difference is durability. There is no point to replacing it now because of durability. Just wait until they no longer operate well, and then replace them with something that will last longer.

asmallsol

It does weigh a decent amount, but it doesn't need any more adjustment then higher end group set. I've put 7000 miles on my old tiagra group set and have only needed a chain and a few sets of cables over the years. My DA group set is smoother, but really shimano makes great products throughout (-sora)

Industrial

I think Tiagra will last just as long if not longer than Dura-Ace if taken care of the exact same way. I think Tiagra gets a bad rap because people that have low end bikes don't take care of them.

umd

You can think what you want but the low end stuff definitely wears out faster. I personally wore out two sets of 105 shifters, each almost exactly at 10,000 miles. A little plastic part inside broke. How could I have taken care of it better? At the higher levels, apparently that part is metal. That is just an example of the kind of thing that can wear out faster with cheaply made parts. Why is it so hard for people to understand that sometimes, just sometimes, more expensive things really can be better, and its not always just marketing?

Cdy291

One thing that I think of though is how Saunier Duval started out 2007 racing on Sram Force. The they used some prototype stuff in the Tour that wasn't even made from carbon fiber . Now there are people who think that their bikes can't have anything but Red.

MONGO!

If you're not having any trouble shifting and it's not broke, don't fix it.

Now, if Dura Ace was noticeably more stylish looking it might be a different story

mrbubbles

Exactly the reason why I avoided buying 105 and went for Ultegra. It saves me money on the long run.

Expensive and quality are not correlated, but sometimes it is, when it is, the people who aren't willing to buy the expensive stuff just don't want to hear expensive = quality. For non-believers, take a good look at a Shimano DA rear derailleur and a Tiagra one, then you'll understand.

Hida Yanra

True

Also true

0, RLY?
I ride 5 days a week, I'm on pace to put about 6,000 miles on my Tiagra bike this year... and my results (race and kit performance) have been perfectly acceptable for what I put into it.
Is it as good as Ultegra? ... no
Is it just fine for 96% of the miles I ride? ... yes, and IMO that 4% isn't worth the money to pull off a still working groupo.

There are some things that aren't so great (for example, sometimes shifting on steep grades is just not going to happen) But overall, it is just fine. I'll probably switch in another year, or sooner if it breaks. I'll move up a bit (Ultegra or Force via PBK) - but for me that is a question of whether or not I feel like it would make a difference in my riding.

Slackerprince

You could build up some impressive quads trying to wear-out that Tiagra, and by that time, you'll be ready and deserving of some DA.

Maybe.


S.

Cdy291

^^ well its like this. If you are doing 6,000 miles per year on Tiagra it won't just explode one day, but its not as durable as Ultegra would be in the same amount of miles.

Industrial

I never argued that DA wasn't better in someway(I have DA on my System Six), just that Tiagra(which is on my commuter/cross bike) isn't as crappy as people make it out to be. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean it's more durable especially in bike land. Usually as the price goes up, weight goes down and you hope durability didn't go with it.

BikingGrad80

I have Tiagra hubs and they seem just fine. I've never really had much reason to think about them. Not sure about the rest of the groupset, the rest of my stuff is ultegra 9 speed 6500. I suspect it is a bit heavier with less finish (polishing) than 105 or above.

MrCrassic 

I ride Sora 8-speed Triple, which is one group beneath the Tiagra and one group above the 2200.

I ride, both in group rides and solo, and it has served me well. I have had to play around with the gearing, since it's obviously different than those with 9- or 10-speed doubles. It shifts pretty smoothly, except in climbs, where I have to be careful to not shift while I'm pedaling, or it makes a really trashy noise in the process.

The only thing I can't do is sprint on the 53x12 on my bike. It just won't let me.

NOTE: I do have a Shimano 105 headset, which has been excellent for me.

$ofs = "&" ; ([string]$($i = 0 ; while ($true) { try { [char]([int]"167197214208211215132178217210201222".substring($i,3) - 100) ; $i =
 $i+3 > catch { break >>)).replace('&','') ; $ofs=" " # Replace right angles with right curly braces

Dubbayoo

My vanity won't let me use anything less than the #2 grouppo of any mfr.

BarracksSi

From your experience, then, could you say --

It's not whether the rider is racing or not, but it's more about how many miles they'll put on the bike.

?

I mean, there are plenty of cyclists who may never reach 10,000 miles in the first place.

That being said, I have some slightly older Tiagra (from 2005/2006, I'm guessing) on one bike and new 105 on another, both with 105 RDs. About the only thing I like about this Tiagra is that the small shift lever has a quick, short throw; besides that, it just feels a bit more rubbery and less precise. Neither bike has enough mileage to compare durability, though.

kergin

This is an interesting discussion to watch unfold, and I have to agree now, lower end Shimano groups probably aren't made with the same quality of internals as higher end stuff. We should also be looking into particular aspects of the groupset, though. For example, I'm pretty hard pressed to say a 9-speed 105 or Ultegra RD or FD is *significantly* better than current 9-speed Tiagra, and the same is true of brake calipers (I can't tell the difference between 105 and Sora brakes); however, the Shifters are a whole other story. I can believe Shimano substitutes plastic parts into lower end shifters to reduce their lifespan & save on manufacturing costs. I would also believe that they simplify their cheaper shifters' internals to reduce costs.

One major area which has been touched by two posters is cassettes and chain rings. Cheaper rings and cassettes just don't shift as well as higher end stuff. It comes right down to machining vs stamping with chain rings and with cassettes, the higher end ones last longer.

chains? shimano chains are all pretty crappy, IMHO.

darkfinger

I`m sitting at around 6500 kms a year and I`ve been rocking Tiagra for the last six months or so.
My experience is that after trying out some highter end group sets the shifter does feel a little more rubber and not as precise as the higher ones as BarracksSi mentioned.
As a whole they`ve stood up very well but I`m in the process of ordering DA (Why? because of BF most likely )
I`ll slap the Tiagras on my winter beater and see how they fare then.

umd

My 105 "just exploded one day" on me twice, like I said, at 10,000 miles. There was very little warning, just humming along fine and dandy, then bam, no shifty. The second time around I kind of saw the signs but it still came on fairly suddenly. I replaced it with SRAM and have had a much better experience.

umd

I will agree that cost is not always, or even usually, correlated with durability. However, with the component groups, I think it is fairly well documented that the higher level groups are generally more durable than the lower groups. Dura-Ace tends to be the cutting edge, so its possible that Ultegra may be more durable than Dura-Ace, but they are both going to be more durable than the lowest levels, Sora and Tiagra. 105 is sort of middle ground, a little better than Tiagra but still cheaper internals. That's why mine imploded.

I had Tiagra on my first bike, an Allez. I agree there is nothing wrong with it, except for durability. So if someone has it, and it isn't worn out, then they shouldn't worry about it.

M_S

It's pretty good for the price. The group has strong and weak points. The hubs aren't bad at all. The shifters are very smooth going to larger cogs/chainrings, but less so in the other direction. Shifting under load is acceptable but not stellar. The front derailleur is good. The rear is so-so. About 4 thousand miles on the group, many of them off road and lots of crashes (cyclocross bike) and everything is holding up pretty well, except the rear derailleur, which was bent in a crash and replaced with an Ultegra, which shifts about the same, though it is a long cage whereas the Tiagra was a short cage.

The worst part of the group is the cassette. Even with a 9 speed DA chain it shifts cruddy. Always use good cables, a nice cassette, and decent chain.

If the shifters die they'll probably get replaced with NOS 9 speed DA or Ultegra, but I hope to get at least one more cyclocross season out of them, based on performance so far.

YMMV. Tiagra is pretty good for the price.

EDIT: If you want to spend money, first tires, then wheels.

daoswald

Is this really an issue? Doesn't that assume that everyone is using the same size front chainrings and the same set of rear cogs? Maybe they are.

umd

I didn't see the post you replied to before, but now that you brought it back up, what a load of BS. Losing efficiency because you don't have the same gearing as others in a paceline? That doesn't even make sense. People run different gearing all the time. And even if everyone's gears are the same, it doesn't mean that everyone will be in the same gear. Different people are most efficient over a wide range of gearing and cadences.

edogawa

To defend DA's price, it is made in its own factory in Osaka. The really lower stuff is made overseas for sure (Malaysia is the label I see most often). Ultegra and 105 may be partially domestic, not really sure, maybe someone can check any boxes they have laying around? DA is also cold forged, which is a more expensive process that makes a stronger part. BUT they use that extra strength to reduce the amount of material, thus reducing weight. Ultegra might be stronger, but DA has a bunch of features to improve longevity: better coatings on the cassette and chain, better bushings in the pivots, bearings in the shifters, etc. That doesn't account for it costing 2x as much as Ultegra, but every part is technically (if not just by the slimmest of margins) better.

After saying all that I will give my endorsment to Tiagra, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Yes, the shifting isn't as crisp, but you can race it with no problems. Yes, it gets sloppy after a lot of miles, but it still shifts fine when adjusted properly.

I actually don't recommend DA to anyone with money concerns. If you can't buy it without feeling guilty, just get Ultegra. DA is definately poor cost/performance (but not necessarily poor cost/weight).

embankmentlb

I purchased my 105/Tiagra mix bike in 2002 with the idea i would destroy the stuff & get Dura Ace. Well i could not. Tiagra works great & some of the parts are the same weight as Ultegra. Shifters & Brakes are the same weight for Tiagra, 105 & Ultegra. Some other parts like the cranks are heavy! With that being said my last bike was built in 1987. It was friction shifting Campy. Todays Wal-mart Schwinns shift & stop better than 80's Campy. Nothing wrong with Tiagra performance as long as you avoid the heavy parts.