Cautionless

Bought about 5 months ago a CAAD9 R6. Last week I upgraded my wheels to Mavic Ksyrium SL honestly just because they look cool. I wasnt expecting any improvement, but to my surprice they do run better. ( not so much to go spending $800 but again I didit cause they look nice)
Evryone in the club are telling me to change the Tiagra....
That is something that I would only change if there is really a difference, not for looks.
My question is: Is there any real difference? Would it make someone other than Lance run better?

Slackerprince

105 is better. Smoother.
You can get Ultegra SL at PBK for less than 105 most places.
If you're happy with Tiagra, keep it.
I live in Florida which is flat, and I use about 3 gears out of 18. Start, mash, super-mash.
I don't know how much you change gears, but if your derailleurs work, don't worry about it.
I upgraded from 105 to Ultegra SL from hanging around BF too much. I should have done DA, in retrospect. Reason? Just cuz'.


Slackerprince

johnny99

Tiagra is 8 or 9 speed (depending on vintage). Better groups are 10 speed these days. If you ride in pacelines with your club, your gearing is going to be somewhat different from everyone else, which will cost you efficiency. Other than that, if it works well for you, you probably won't notice big differences.

ShadowGray

I ride Tiagra. It shifts fine, I need to adjust it but then again so does every groupset. I've test ridden 105 from the LBS, no noticable difference yet.

Tiagra works just as well as any other groupset, especially if you're not racing. Just make sure it's well taken care of and well adjusted, and it'll do fine.

In retrospect, Tiagra does have one major flaw... how the hell do you pronounce it???

Pugsly

There is, but I don't know that I would pull a perfectly functional group off - switching that is a bit different from switching wheels. Ride what ya got, it is probably matched pretty well to the bike anyways.

ElJamoquio

Nothing's 'wrong' with it. Personally I don't see any difference in 'looks' between Tiagra and Dura-Ace.

If you were buying a new bike, I'd recommend 105. You already have Tiagra. No need to change, and if you do, I'd be recommending Rival.

MedicMan55

I think the only thing that is annoying about Tiagra is the shifter on the inside-upper part of the hood. So, when you're in the drops, you can't shift gears that easily.

ShadowGray

I think you're mistaking Tiagra with Sora... Tiagra uses brifters, the same shifter that's on the 105, on the Ultegra, and on the Dura Ace.

On a bike like that, the biggest upgrade you can probably do is the saddle and the wheelset. Everything else is pretty intertwined with each other..

photonick

I have a mixture of 105,Ultegra and one piece of Tiagra, it works fine, i noticed the ultegra RD is a bit smoother than the Tiagra FD BUT would i upgrade my FD, hell no. My next bike I will be buying Ultegra but I don't see the point in going Dura-Ace if your not full blown competing. The only way I'm upgrading my gruppo on this bike is if I start riding with a group that rides all doubles, right now I'm rolling solo mostly and with some ppl who ride triples.

MedicMan55

Oh, I see that you are correct ShadowGray! Thanks for pointing that out, I stand corrected.

Cdy291

Tiagra needs more adjustments more often than the higher end groups. It weights a bunch more than Dura ace. It not as forgiving shifting under loads or while cross chaining as the higher end groups. The front shifting isn't quite as accurate feeling, and last but not least its not durable enough to handle the use of someone more than about twice a week, max maybe 3,000 miles per year.

z3n

I rode a tiagra / sora mix on my first bike and now ride 105. I find the shifting more crisp and easier to shift on hills.

Booger

I know this is commonly accepted, but where is the supporting data? Aren't we talking about parts that use the exact same technology, same raw material, and are very simple to churn out with tight tolerances at the same factory?

Unless Shimano is doing something to intentionally cripple their lower end components (possible), I'm having trouble understanding how high end components offer a real world performance gain, excluding weight savings and 10 speed compatibility.

StanSeven

Less expensive parts; component pieces that won't hold up over the long run and many miles...less QA. Come on. Do you think they make DA and the lower end exactly the same and just charge more?

I have DA and also 105 on my commuter bike. I've got maybe 20,000 miles on the DA without any sign of wear. 105 is shot in that same milage with exactly the same maintenace

johnny99

Shimano does not use the same technology in all their groups. Lower end groups use cheaper technology and cheaper manufacturing techniques and cheaper installation procedures, e.g., stamping instead of forging, bushings instead of ball bearings, cartridge components cannot be lubricated by the user, etc. All this stuff adds weight and reduces precision and reduces durability. In addition, the 8/9 speed drivetrains on the cheaper groups are not compatible with the 10 speed drivetrains on the better groups. How valuable are these improvements to you? That depends a lot on how much you ride and how hard you push your bike. If you ride less than 2000 miles/year, Tiagra may last longer than you own the bike.

Booger

I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Many companies (including my employer) have one line for an entire group of products. Sometimes, the lower end products are intentionally crippled before they're boxed up, but not always. As we all know, painting a certain brand name on a frame will add thousands to the MSRP. And c'mon, this is cycling. Marketing trumps all.


Again, I'm not calling you out. I just want to understand why. Is weaker metal being used? I don't think that QA can account for differences in wear patterns.

kergin

I rode a 9-speed Tiagra/105 OCR2 for a few years, then upgraded to 105 on a CAAD9 and now I run full Ultegra. I've noticed almost nothing between the groups (do not race). Actually, 10 speed is more finicky, requiring adjustment much more often than 9 or 7 speed bikes I've ridden. My suggestion to the OP is upgrade the drivetrain when you crash the bike and destroy those parts. Another thing to keep in mind is that Shimano uses a trickle-down strategy with all but its lowest groups - so 9 speed Tiagra should be on par with Ultegra-level 9 speed from back in the day.

Actually, I partly lied: when upgrading from 9 speed tiagra to 105/Ultegra I got an external BB Shimano crank which was over 9000 times better than the square taper Truvativ cranks that came on the OCR. Stiffer, smoother, better.

Booger

Interesting. I guess the only differentiations I really knew about were weight/compatibility. I wish we had access to Shimano's internal testing figures.

mrbubbles

Were they both used in the exact same conditions? I don't suppose you take your DA bike out in the rain, snow, grit covered road as much as the commuting bike.

saintsfan342000

In an effort to get more entry level cyclists, Shimano is coming out with tv commercials for the Tiagra. The commercials will consist of a bunch of middle-aged men singing "Vivaaaaa Tiagra!".

Youngin

Good point.

Rahzel

I pronounced it Tee-ahh-gruh until I heard two (very knowledgeable) guys in my LBS pronounce it Tie-aaa (as in "bracket")-gruh. Now I use the latter pronunciation

Wested

I think that's true to an extent. But honestly, I think my 2001 DA is a lot more reliable than a 2008 Tiagra.

But nevertheless, don't be fooled into thinking you "need" ultegra or DA or campy record. Just keep doin' what you're doin' and if you find that Tiagra is screwing the pooch, then think about upgrading. I hear 105 gives the most bang for the buck.

Cdy291

I do believe on occasion that Shimano intentionally makes their lower ended groups less ****ional, even though it cost them the same to make. But one thing that does cost more money and has a big impact on performance is that the cogs, chains, and chainrings on the lower groups are just stamped out of sheet metal while the better groups get precisely machined parts.


Once you go to Ultegra or D/A you will never go back.

umd

There is a lot of good hand-wringing in this thread. It's funny the people that think that DA and Tiagra are really just the same parts inside.

The higher end Shimano stuff is made with better parts, constructed to a higher standard, and will operate better and last longer. As Shimano comes out with new technology, it "trickles down" to their lower components, but by then the higher components have been improved as well. However, they don't just rebrand them. Present-day 105 may have technology developed for Dura-Ace years ago, but it is not just an old Dura-Ace part.

SRAM, on the other hand, actually did use the same internal mechanical parts with Force and Rival. The only difference is the exterior materials, and the resulting weight. Red uses different internal construction. Force and Rival for next year will get some of the improvements that they "figured out" while designing Red, but it will still not be the exact same mechanical parts as Red.