mike868y

Hey Guys, sorry if this is a little bit of a novice technique question, but I ride alone, so I have nothing to base my technique off of. So, I was wondering when is it more efficient to sit down and spin when going up a hill, and when is it more efficient to stand and mash the pedals? I have been trying to spin up some of the smaller hills, but some of the longer/steeper ones require me to get out of the saddle. Is there an easy way to tell when to use one method? Or is it basically just experience. Thanks for the help.

uke

Use your fingers, not your legs.

127.0.0.1

everyone is different

mix it up

you know when you must stand cuz you can't make it up otherwise

but there is no rule. just get to the top and don't blow up before the next guy

if there was a rule, it would be sit then stand then sit and repeat


standing is easier on the knees but uses up more power

sitting is hard on knees but uses less power

MrCrassic 

It is usually recommended to sit and get a nice pace going on a climb, so that you can conserve energy and finish with enough energy to get back into the regular flow when you're done.

It's good to stand and go hard on a climb when either:

• You know how long the climb is, and you know how much energy you can spend and where, or
• Your attacking someone in a race, or trying to set the pace really high to tire others out.

In any case, standing and "mashing" wastes about 5% more energy than just spinning and enjoying the pain. You will be tempted to do that, but it doesn't yield any great benefits.

Hope that helps!

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patentcad

On hard group rides or in races when going uphill, generally if I have to stand, I'm toast. There is no doubt that sitting is more efficient for most cyclists. Seems more painful when you're alone, but in a competitive riding situation, I have enough experience to tell you that it's the only way for me to stay with the bunch when I'm really on the rivet.

MrCrassic 

It's easier (at least for me) to stand while climbing with a (fast) group because the challenge to catch up is there, which helps the body overwhelm some of the pain. When you're alone, it's better to just spin and get a nice pace.

I personally don't "spin" up hills, because that would involve dropping down to a gear that produces more wasted energy spinning than I would waste standing and hammering it out (i.e. I go slower).

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kudude

if that's true, you're doing it wrong.


Sitting is ALWAYS more efficient. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, however to get the power down. pcad's right, though. If you're ever climbing at your limit next to someone and you hop out of the saddle, it seems very difficult to hold the pace for more than a couple of pedal strokes (at least for me). The sit and spin can be agonizing, however. Feels like you're not using all your muscles, and somehow you should be able to will your biceps to help you get up the hill. Doesn't really work that way for extended efforts.

roadiejorge 

I only stand when I know I'll have enough energy to get through it without completely burning out. There have been plenty of times that I've tried to mash my way up a long climb and paid the price; trying to get through it faster to minimize the pain sounds like a good idea but if your legs don't make it then it's going to feel worse.

kudude

are your hills 100m long?

patentcad

When you stand, your HR goes up. Works OK if you're extremely aerobic, (skinny climber perhaps), not so great for most cyclists. You do blow faster climbing out of the saddle. Sometimes you have no choice in order to get on top of the gear on a steeper grade however.

Again: it is one thing to be alone climbing at your own pace, and another to be pushed in a race or competitive ride by better cyclists. The true test is what works in the latter situation, and for me that's seated climbing.

roadiejorge 

I always thought that spinning up hills is a wasted effort but I've improved my endurance and speed going up hills by doing so. Standing works for me when I need that extra push to make it through the end of the hill.

MrCrassic 

It's been recommended to spin at around 85rpm up a hill, but I can only do that if I'm in my granny ring.

Either I'm not strong enough or I just can't spin up hills. Either way, I still need work there.

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M_S

I don't road race yet, but in XC and cyclocross I actualy stand less than when just riding around. I stil do, but I can feel the inefficiency more when I've spent 45 minutes in zone 4 or whatever. I atribute this to the fact than when riding by myself when I'm sitting I'm at a fairly relaxed energy output. When racing, I'm at a high power output even when sitting.

I've noticed the same phenomenon on relatvively long road rides.

Not sure if that helps, sorry.

roadiejorge 

Just keep at it, I used to think the same thing especially since it seems counterintuitive to do something that hurts. I can spin in the 80s going up most hills I've encountered up here, though the Alpine D'Huez is still a work in progress...

waterrockets 

Lemond always climbed seated 80% and standing 20%. My practice is to sit for the shallower portions of the climb, and stand for the steeper sections, rounding out to standing around 20% of the time.

Note that a lower cadence is actually more efficient due to resistance in your legs at high cadence and mis-firing muscles more frequently. The tradeoff is that for a bit more aerobic energy to cover the inefficiency, the higher cadence lowers muscle fatigue over time. This just enables better performance at the end of the ride or race.

Creakyknees

I'm with PCad - I'm a heavier build, so climbs for me are survival mode. I sit and spin and hurt and suffer, and only when I'm really desperate to close that gap over the top, will I stand and sprint - and by that time I only have a few seconds of power to do it.

Riding solo, I can stand and roll along all day long... but that's just rolling along.

patentcad

I must confess that the skinnier I get and the more my climbing comes around, the less trouble I have not blowing after I get out of the saddle. But the original question is what's more efficient, and generally that's seated climbing for the vast majority of cyclists.

ted ward

seated is more efficient but standing is a good skill to work on. I like to climb in the big ring around 75 rpm out of the saddle. It gives you something to do, focusing on rocking the bike smoothly.

medcat4077

I can't imagine climbing anything very long on the big ring. But I'm pretty weak

ridethecliche

Mashing is far more efficient with regards to energy transfer, but it isn't in regard to cardio/muscular usage balance. You can train yourself to spin, which will enable you to be more efficient with regard to your body's energy usage.

waterrockets 

^^^^ +1

Let's say it a 3rd time: lower cadence is more efficient, but it sucks from a fatigue standpoint.

pcad, to prevent blowing up when you stand, glance down at your PowerTap and make sure you're not putting out any more power. Just upshift a cog and stand. Maintain your power, and you'll be fine.

Fat Boy

I stay in the saddle a lot more than most of the people I ride with. In general, if I'm out of the saddle it's because

A. The hill is really freakin' steep, and that's the only way I'll keep moving,
B. I'm slacking off and if I stand and pedal slowly(generally 2 gears up) it's probably slower but uses different muscles
C. I'm feeling frisky and trying to hurt someone....which usually is just me.

I find it hard to stay seated at 60rpm, but I can do it standing. When I'm standing I just automatically go 2 gears up. If I go 2 gears up and start stomping in the middle of a long climb it could just be an aspect of the oxygen debt. Having said that, it happens every once in a while.

davids0507

As a new rider, this is something I've been thinking about a lot. Surely there must be a power output where standing becomes more efficient than sitting, since the pros stand up for all of the real accellerations. I definitely go a lot faster standing up, but my legs get more tired. I think my heart rate goes down a bit too. So for me (a complete beginner) it seems to be a balance between maxing out my heart and my legs. Alternating standing and sitting seems to maximize my speed up the hill, but my legs go dead if I stand for too long, which can be difficult to recover from. When I go flat-out up a hill, I stand as much as I can. Is this uncommon?

davids0507

I see some of my questions have been answered as I typed that...

ridethecliche

I've noticed that I can stand more often now after getting my pro fit. The muscles that used to feel drained already, feel fresher when I stand up. A bit of that is returning fitness, and a bit is due to the position changes.

I had my best ride yet (post crash) this past weekend and it was a hilly ride. I only stood up on climbs to accelerate hard and catch someone trying to get away. I was in my 39-25 for a lot of the hills, just spinning high rpms. I started wishing that I had a compact since at my current fitness I can go faster by using my aerobic attributes and maintaining that higher heart rate and spinning up a hill in a 34-23 at a high cadence instead of standing up and causing my HR to spike a bit.

My recovery from hard efforts is getting better as well, but I really like having a compact. My girlfriend just happens to be using the bike with the compact and I'm not going to swap cranks on my race bike so I'll suck it up for now, get stronger, and get a 12-27 cassette next.

To the OP, if you have a HRM do the following. Go out for a ride and vary your efforts. Go too hard a few times, until you find that heart rate where you feel like you're at the threshold of blowing up, but you can maintain it for a long time if you needed to. Climb around this heart rate, and you'll be more efficient. This should be a good starting point, regardless of whether you're standing or sitting.