53x12

I wanted to get your opinion about my options. I recently bought some parts for a bike and got what I considered to be a fantastic deal. Without going into too much detail, the listing the seller posted listed the items as being in better condition than they actually were when I got them. I feel the posting blantantly misrepresented the condition of the item. Since then I have emailed the seller and brought up my concern. The seller even apologized in one of the emails for misleading me in the add. At this point the only real thing that I would be happy with is to return the bike to the seller and just get my parts somewhere else. The seller mentioned that they are not willing to take a return.

So my two options are: 1) File a complaint with Paypal and work on a resolution or 2) Just call up my CC and file a complaint with them.

Is there a better way of doing this over another? Should I do paypal first and then if that doesn't work go through the CC company? Has anyone been in this situation before? Is there a preferred method that you used? I guess the reason I bring this up is that I heard PP doesn't really do much with the complaint of "not as described." They "investigate" it and that is about it. Only when it is about goods not received have I heard any action takes place. Let me know what you think. Thanks for the help in advance guys.

AEO

do paypal first.

mloywhite

At least email him once. lf he doesn' reply, or is unhelpful, then go to Paypal.

53x12

Yeah I did that as soon as I opened the package and noticed what happened. We have been back and forth several times. He apologized in one of the emails for misleading me in the add.

roccobike

Yes, I was in a similiar situation. I filed a complaint with Paypal. After ebay and Paypal did next to nothing, constantly asking for the complaint to be refiled, then refiled again. I got fed up and filed with my credit card company. Within 48 hrs I had a credit in my Paypal records. I did NOT get cash in my hand.
IMHO, as many have said, Paypal is the bed partner of ebay and works to try and make the buyer reneg on the complaint rather than servicing their customer, you. However, I would give Paypal a chance. That way if you do file with your CC, you can always tell Paypal they had a week to clean this up and didn't. Whatever you do, WATCH YOUR TIMELINES THE CLOCK IS TICKING.

erliuic

I strongly suggest you go through paypal before you go through the credit card company. Besides, protection for the buyer in such situations is one of the reasons paypal exists. If you can show evidence that the item was improperly represented, you will certainly get your money back.

erliuic

When I filed with PayPal for an item I was getting screwed on, I got refunded by the end of the week. The seller wanted me to pay his eBay, shipping, and PayPal fees in order to return an item. Got my money back and left him negative feedback.

53x12

So basically file a complaint with PP. If that doesn't get resolved then file a dispute (has to be within 20 days of complaint). If that doesn't work then my CC would be something like 90 days after the purchase (depending on CC company)?

53x12

Yeah totally. I want to be as fair as possible, that is why I contacted the seller first to see if they would fix the situation. So I'm thinking this:

1) Contact seller on own and try to work out
2) Go through Paypal complaint
3) go through CC as a last resort

Does that basically sum it all up?

sstorkel

I fail to understand why anyone would waste time trying to get anything resolved via PayPal. As everyone admits, they're next to useless in resolving disputes.

Call your credit card company now, explain the situation to them, and ask their advice. Most credit card companies are very good about handling these situations, unlike PayPal. Your credit card company might suggest you contact PayPal. If they do, follow-through on that suggestion. But I'd also make sure that the credit card company creates some sort of record of your call. That way, when you end up getting screwed by PayPal you can call the credit card company back and they'll have a record of what's going on...

53x12

sstorkel, great advice!! I was actually just thinking about doing that just to have something on file with my CC. I think I will do that this evening just in case the sh*t hits the fan. I googled this topic and found some post on another forum stating they got an email from paypal saying:

"Our investigation into the following transaction is complete. As stated in our User Agreement, the claims process only applies to the delivery of goods. It does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a refund."

I'm interested in seeing what will happen on paypal's side.

Acquaspin

Based on my own experience I strongly suggest you go directly to your credit card company.

Paypal is just a necessary evil people have to deal with in order to purchase through Ebay. For all other purposes, their customer service is lacking at best.
They have no competition, there's no real incentive for them to "protect" the buyers.
You'll waste your time going back and fort with Paypal trying to fulfill all their compalint requirements and at the end you'll end up going to your credit card company.

Credit Card for Paypal purchases; provides the convenience of paypal and the protection of your Credit Card company. Doing it in any other manner is plain foolish.

markwebb

Go through PayPal. I have hundreds of transactions through paypal for something like 8 years. Only filed a complaint twice.

The thing about filing the complaint with Paypal is everything is documented on their system - your complaint, sellers response, etc. Emails are not an acceptable form of documentation because they can be altered. So PayPal won't really care much about email exchanges. So, just follow the PayPal procedures and work the complaint within their system.

I bought a $600 telescope that had some broken parts, and seller refused to refund my money & take scope back. After a week I filed complaint with PayPal. It took two weeks, but seller finally agreed to a refund and return of item. Got the purchase refunded via PayPal and then simply transferred to my checking. It was pretty painless. Most sellers don't want the hassle and if they find you're serious with a formal Paypal complaint and claim they usually take notice & do the right thing. If seller has a good history on eBay and several years of experience on eBay they usually are good people and will refund, even if it's under pressure by a PayPal complaint. Sometimes they just need a little push in the right direction

Now - with al that said - if it's used parts you may have trouble proving your case. Just because YOU think the parts were sub-standard and not as described, you could have a hard time proving it to PayPal. If seller still refuses to issue refund but PayPal determines you're in the right they'll refund you and go after the deadbeat seller. But it's really hard to prove your case on used parts. If they were advertised as new never used and they came to you all grimy and nasty and well worn and obviously used, that's one situation. But you have to substantiate your case and prove the parts were not as described. That may be tough. To be sure, be your own toughest critic. If they were advertised as used and in good condition, well, there is a lot of latitude there and PayPal may decide in the sellers favor. They may not agree with you when it's all said and done. In my case with scope there was a major part that was just plain broken and rendered instrument totally unusable. Your case may not be that easy.

If you file it with CC company, you'll get your money back fast but you also risk having your PayPal account suspended or cancelled. If you don't care about ever using PayPal again, then just go the CC route. If you intend to use PayPal in the future, file it with PayPal.

markwebb

with 2100+ transactions with PayPal, I disagree with most everything you stated. Their customer service is now quite good. 5 years ago before eBay bought them that was not the case.

Like I said to OP - if he never wants to use PayPal again then just go CC route. PayPal will then suspend or cancel his PayPal account. If he wants to use PayPal in future, just follow their simple procedures.

But he has to make sure he's in the right - just because he thinks the parts were not as described does not mean he's right. If the parts were sold as-is with no warranty expressed or implied and no guarantee or published refund if not satisfied, on something like used bike parts it may be hard to prove his case.

53x12

markwebb, in the case that papypal doesn't rule in my favor, I could still file a backcharage with my CC right? Would I still risk getting my paypal account closed, even if I went through them first?

markwebb

What you found was a final decision by PayPal. What they try to do at first is broker an agreement with you and the seller. Then, if seller still does not wanna do a refund, they'll make a decision. Like I warned you, unless the items are advertised as new and you got used parts, it would be tough to prove that you thought you were buying Class A+ used parts and you got what you perceive to be C- used parts. In the end they are still used.

New and ya got used, or ya got broken parts, are the only way PayPal will decide in your favor.

I don't recall you ever posting just exactly what you thought was wrong with parts compared to the eBay description. Why don't you post the link url to the item and then describe for us what you think is the problem with the parts. You may have no recourse with CC either if it's just a disagreement over used parts that work but are more used than what you wanted. It could be your buyer remorse or you found a better deal somewhere else - why don't you try and prove your case here and see what we think to give you a sorta vetting of your case and see what feedback you get.

markwebb

Yes. If you have a long history with them they have a policy of not suspending your account for just one chargeback. if you are a newbie to PayPal and this is like your 2nd or 3rd transaction they'll probably dump you. They like guys like me - customer for 8 years, 2000+ transactions, 2 complaints in 8 years and no zero nada chargebacks either from me or from anyone I sold anything to.

Post the link to item, describe what you think is wrong, and vet it here. I'd like to give you my opinion of what to expect.

Acquaspin

So, having 2100+ transactions gives you grounds to disagree on facts about Paypal that have no relationship whatsoever with transaction volume?

Can you count how many If's you acknowledged the OP has to go through for Paypal to do something for him??? Yet you insist that Paypal Customer is just fine and it is a pleasure to deal with them

Precisely my point. They have no competition, they do not care. If buyer fails to jump through all the hurdles satisfactorily Paypal will close their account.

53x12

I would do that, but I don't want to break anonyminity on the forum as the seller might frequent here as well. I don't want or need this to blow up into a full fledged discussion of who was right or wrong, I don't have to prove anything about what happened except to paypal/my CC. There is no issue of buyer's remorse or me finding a better deal. That didn't happen at all. What did happen is the seller mislead in their description of the parts. I was told they were "hardly used," in "perfect condition," "no scratches" and "in new condition" even though it had been used. Those words describe a certain condition that was not met upon getting the package. That is what the issue is revolving around for me.

wirelessness

You might also suggest a partial refund from the Seller. I've done that before and had at least a semi decent outcome. The parts must have some value. If you can get a partial refund then that might be good enough. If the parts are not good enough for you to use then you could resell them and maybe break even. Just a thought. If you are persistent you should find resolution w/ PayPal though.

markwebb

Acquaspin, I don't feel like arguing with you, as you have no idea what you're talking about.

The point is that if you buy something used on eBay and Pay with PayPal, unless the items come broken and you paid for insurance and seller forgot to insure and you can prove they were broken in transit,

or else the opposite - you can prove they were NOT broken in transit and thus had to be broken when seller advertised them and packed them,

or else they were advertised as new and they come to you obviously used,

or seller advertised 5 day or 10 day or 30 day no hassle money back refund if not completely satisfied,

or parts are totally different make /brand than advertised

.....basically if you have a slam dunk case then PayPal will take care of you. But if it's just a disagreement over used parts that work but are more used more than buyer expected, then PayPal is not gonna help much, and CC company may not help much either.

Used parts are used parts - PayPal can't broker agreements between every buyer who buys something used and get the parts but they're just more used than they expected. There has to be material major misrepresentation involved that can be proved. If not, it's just buyer beware and PayPal has nothing to do with it. That's what the eBay rating feedback system is for - for buyers to let other potential buyers know of bad sellers.

Dubbayoo

Did the ad state that returns were accepted?

markwebb

Send me a PM with link - not saying I don't believe you, but any seller that does a lot of biz on eBay with great positive feedback is not gonna advertise anything as "in new condition" unless it's in new condition. If it said in new condition and it's well worn, that's an issue. If they just said excellent used condition, that's another. Send me a PM and I'll send you back a PM and let you know my opinion, which would be based on 8+ years on Ebay and lots of successful transactions. I'll be brutally honest with you.

53x12

markwebb, sorry but it actually wasn't done through ebay. It was posted on another website.

urbanknight

The seller APOLOGIZED for misleading you but refuses to make a return. He basically admitted it's his/her fault. Forward that email to paypal and demand a refund. If that doesn't work within 2 weeks, cancel the charge on your credit card. Be sure to leave the unreasonable DB negative feedback so we know who not to buy from in the future.