Why front brakes is proper technique?
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Rock Island, IL
Posts: 594
Bikes: LeMond Chambery
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I use both at the same time most times I stop/slow down. I use the front sparingly or not at all on loose surfaces or when there is sand or gravel on the pavement.
#27
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,466
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6276 Post(s)
Liked 4,303 Times
in
2,412 Posts
I'm not sure why you're holding the front wheel's deceleration constant in your example. The front wheel can't contribute .5g at what you call maximum deceleration and still contribute that same .5g when the rear loses traction. Either the rear wheel has traction when the front is producing .5 or it doesn't. To me, the Sheldon Brown assertion makes sense. So long as the front has traction maximum deceleration is achieved when downward force on the rear wheel is zero.
Moving weight towards the rear of the bike during braking increases the bikes deceleration by increasing traction to the rear wheel. The rear brake contributes more and the bike decelerates faster. Transfer weight forward and the bike doesn't stop any faster...in fact it decelerates slower. Have you never skidded a bike just for fun? You get the longest skids by moving your body all the way up to the handlebars.
Tandems can experience much higher deceleration for the same reason...more weight over the rear wheel.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#28
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Here's a question: have you ever had a reason (on the road) to need 100% maximum braking? Me, never. I have had to grab a good fistful of brake on a few occasions, but 80% of maximum or whatever I was doing was good enough. Paying attention and riding defensively is worth wayyyy more than the difference between 90% braking and 100%.
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,257
Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
use the front brake, but shift all your weight to the back, because you're less likely to fly over the bars.
on tandems you can't use the front brake only because you will fishtail if the rear loses all traction.
if you find yourself in a situation requiring 100% braking, you're likely to hit whatever is in front of you anyways, but at a much slower speed.
on tandems you can't use the front brake only because you will fishtail if the rear loses all traction.
if you find yourself in a situation requiring 100% braking, you're likely to hit whatever is in front of you anyways, but at a much slower speed.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
In nearly all situations, the mountain bike braking ability is less stable then that of a road bike. Suspension dive transfers more weight towards the front of the bike then a rigid fork will. The geometry also steepens which puts more weight on the front end and makes pitch over even more likely.
My freeride bike, due to the way-back centre of gravity from the long wheelbase and long fork rake, has a much shorter stopping distance under all conditions. It's almost impossible to go over the bars on that thing on level ground, even slamming on the front hydraulic... it's more likely to drag both wheels.
#31
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,340
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1472 Post(s)
Liked 758 Times
in
390 Posts
You use more rear brake on a tandem because you have more traction on the rear wheel.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#32
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,340
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1472 Post(s)
Liked 758 Times
in
390 Posts
1) panic stop, i.e. car pulls dead in front of you, or is about to T-bone you. A one m/s difference in the rate of deceleration could be life or death.
2) racing, for example solo descent at speed into a tight turn. Braking hard and late, will be faster than gradually braking early.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
It wasn't really life or death, but I would have looked pretty stupid rear-ending a truck on my road bike.
#34
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,466
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6276 Post(s)
Liked 4,303 Times
in
2,412 Posts
Note that the way he calculates the maximum braking force is by determining how much deceleration can occur before the bike begins its pitchover. I.e. the maximum deceleration is precisely at the moment when the rear wheel just starts to lift from the ground.
You can 'argue' that, but here you are just asserting it to be true without giving any justification. The physics of the situation, as applied by Wilson above, shows that it is not the case. If there is any significant loading left on the rear wheel that is an indication that you still aren't using the front brake to its maximum potential. Applying it more strongly will then add to your stopping power (or deceleration) and reduce the loading on the rear wheel (ideally to zero but in practice it is hard to keep it at exactly zero without having a pitchover event).
You can 'argue' that, but here you are just asserting it to be true without giving any justification. The physics of the situation, as applied by Wilson above, shows that it is not the case. If there is any significant loading left on the rear wheel that is an indication that you still aren't using the front brake to its maximum potential. Applying it more strongly will then add to your stopping power (or deceleration) and reduce the loading on the rear wheel (ideally to zero but in practice it is hard to keep it at exactly zero without having a pitchover event).
All of these 'tricks' are meant to maximize your braking ability in situations where the bike's brakes aren't performing at their absolute best, i.e. high angle braking, loose surfaces, varying surface and traction conditions, etc. Well, except skidding...that's just done to be cool!
If, on the other hand, the assertions that the front brake is the only brake you should use (or at least should need), wouldn't you want to transfer weight to the front wheel as soon as possible during braking to maximize the braking efficiency of the bike? In other words, you'd want to slide towards the handlebars during braking so that the front wheel is carrying the maximum load and has the maximum traction. I dare anyone to try it whether on the road or on dirt. Unless you have some very mad bike skillz, you'll end up on the ground with the bike on top of you. A nose wheelie isn't the best strategy for maximum deceleration.
Most everyone slides rearward as a reflex when braking. Why? To transfer weight towards the rear wheel. This keeps the bike from pitching over by putting weight on the rear wheel and by increasing the traction of the rear wheel and keeping the rear wheel spinning for control. That additional traction also equates to better braking when the rear brake is used.
Looks like you're just pulling numbers out of the air. Where does this idea of only 80 - 90% from the front brake come from? Wilson makes it clear from the force analysis in the book that his maximum of .56 g for the specified geometry is coming entirely from the front brake - i.e. 100%, not 80% - 90%.
*I know you guys hate the mountain bike model but road bikes and mountain bikes help develop complimentary skills. A road bike is great for endurance and leg strength. A mountain bike is great for building power and handling skills. If you know how to handle a mountain bike when the wheels...front and rear...are going all of the place because they are bouncing off of stuff, a simple slide on a road bike in a corner, on a slick patch or in a braking situation is a piece of cake to handle.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#35
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The problem with the mountain bike model is that traction on pavement doesn't tend to be a limiter, but on dirt, it frequently is.
#36
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
Working downtown as a messenger in tight traffic with crazed pedestrians, cabbies, and homicidal soccer moms warrants some well developed skills, among those is the ability to do a full on panic stop without going otb.
I was out for a pleasure ride on my fixed gear the other day and a fellow stepped out from between some parked cars in the middle of the street... when he saw me he froze and am sure he thought he was going to get run over.
The best option was to stop and not try to swing around him as he may have decided to dart across the street.
#37
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Why not? At maximum deceleration, the front and rear are contributing as much as they can. Lose the deceleration available from the rear wheel, i.e. skid it, and the front wheel can't pick up the difference. The front wheel...and the bike... are limited in the amount of deceleration that it can provide because the bike wants to pivot around the front axle and allow the load to be transferred in front of the wheel. That's what a pitch over or endo is. A complete transfer of the system weight ahead of the front axle.
Moving weight towards the rear of the bike during braking increases the bikes deceleration by increasing traction to the rear wheel. The rear brake contributes more and the bike decelerates faster. Transfer weight forward and the bike doesn't stop any faster...in fact it decelerates slower. Have you never skidded a bike just for fun? You get the longest skids by moving your body all the way up to the handlebars.
Tandems can experience much higher deceleration for the same reason...more weight over the rear wheel.
Moving weight towards the rear of the bike during braking increases the bikes deceleration by increasing traction to the rear wheel. The rear brake contributes more and the bike decelerates faster. Transfer weight forward and the bike doesn't stop any faster...in fact it decelerates slower. Have you never skidded a bike just for fun? You get the longest skids by moving your body all the way up to the handlebars.
Tandems can experience much higher deceleration for the same reason...more weight over the rear wheel.
#38
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,466
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6276 Post(s)
Liked 4,303 Times
in
2,412 Posts
Like I've said...over and over...if the technique works in bad conditions, think of how much better it works in good conditions. Mountain biking is the worst case scenario.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 04-27-09 at 12:06 PM.
#39
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,466
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6276 Post(s)
Liked 4,303 Times
in
2,412 Posts
You said it yourself. Pitch over is the limiting factor when braking. At your "maximum deceleration" both wheels are NOT contributing as much as they can for the simple fact that in order to lift the rear wheel the front has to contribute more stopping power. You're acting as if the front wheel has some maximum that you can reach and treating that as the limiting factor. The problem with this is that you can't reach the front wheel's full braking potential due to pitch over. Max braking occurs when you use as much of the front brake as you can while you remain upright.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#40
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
(Myself, I always use both brakes, I just never squeeze the rear brake very hard.)
#41
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#42
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,466
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6276 Post(s)
Liked 4,303 Times
in
2,412 Posts
Remove the contribution from the rear wheel and you'll never achieve the full deceleration potential of the bike. If you could, then nose wheelies or rear wheel skids would be the best way to stop in any situation since the deceleration contribution from the rear wheel would always be zero.
If you think about the way you brake a bike you already do this naturally. Most people push back on the bike during hard braking. Someone else here said that you should brace for braking. But what you are really doing is loading the rear wheel so that you don't lift it off the ground. Even without [breaking] it [loose], the rear wheel will contribute to the deceleration of the bike by keeping both wheels in contact with the ground. If you use the rear brake, that just adds to the deceleration that you have available since you can't reach the limit of the maximum deceleration.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 04-27-09 at 10:13 PM. Reason: correct misspelling and grammatical error
#43
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,466
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6276 Post(s)
Liked 4,303 Times
in
2,412 Posts
Name some. Personally, I can't see any. I can see some techniques that are ideal for good conditions that won't work in bad conditions but I can't envision anything the other way around.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#45
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
[Actually, locking and skidding the wheels brakes faster (with less control) on some surfaces like snow and gravel (for cars -- I wouldn't want to try skidding the front wheel on a bike).]
#46
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#47
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,466
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6276 Post(s)
Liked 4,303 Times
in
2,412 Posts
Sorry that should have read 'breaking it loose'. I corrected it in the original post.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#48
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,466
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6276 Post(s)
Liked 4,303 Times
in
2,412 Posts
When traction is poor, flipping the bike is no longer an issue, so the ideal braking technique is to have both wheels just at the point of locking up. If you use the same technique (braking up to the point just before the wheels lock up) on a normal road bike, you'll flip it.
I don't know where you live but I've got decades of snow and gravel driving. Locked brakes on either surface will not result in shorter stopping distances. That's why they invented antilock brakes. Those of us who learned how to drive on snow without them generally hate them because we have to learn how to brake all over again. I have noticed that some of the antilock systems work only on the rear wheels. On ice the front wheels lock up and just slide forever. I could do much better if I could pump the damned things
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#49
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,466
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6276 Post(s)
Liked 4,303 Times
in
2,412 Posts
You can 'argue' that, but here you are just asserting it to be true without giving any justification. The physics of the situation, as applied by Wilson above, shows that it is not the case. If there is any significant loading left on the rear wheel that is an indication that you still aren't using the front brake to its maximum potential. Applying it more strongly will then add to your stopping power (or deceleration) and reduce the loading on the rear wheel (ideally to zero but in practice it is hard to keep it at exactly zero without having a pitchover event).
However, further on (p. 245) he states that the limit of deceleration in a car, tandem or recumbent is the limit of the tire-to-road coefficient of friction. The only reason that these vehicles have much higher deceleration rates is because the vehicle is biased more biased towards the rear wheels. They can flip over the front wheels so the rear wheel provide more stopping power to the system.
At no point in his discussions does he say that only the front brake should be used. He goes to great lengths to say that rear wheel braking only is completely inadequate for stopping a bike in an emergency situation, to which I fully agree. He does not, however say that only the front brake should be used.
Looks like you're just pulling numbers out of the air. Where does this idea of only 80 - 90% from the front brake come from? Wilson makes it clear from the force analysis in the book that his maximum of .56 g for the specified geometry is coming entirely from the front brake - i.e. 100%, not 80% - 90%.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,481
Bikes: Too many to list!
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
It's really all about the conditions.
If the road is clean and I'm stopping in a straight line, I'll use a lot of front brake along with the rear. However, in low traction situation or if I have to brake while turning, I'll use the back brake more.
... Brad
If the road is clean and I'm stopping in a straight line, I'll use a lot of front brake along with the rear. However, in low traction situation or if I have to brake while turning, I'll use the back brake more.
... Brad