umd

BikesDirect's higher-end bikes seem ok but their low-end bikes are pretty much the department store junk you would expect them to be. The biggest problem with them here is their "inflated MSRP", recycling of prestigious names, and their "shilling", or perception thereof. It used to be a very real problem, these days there is the occasional post that fits the pattern but could just be an innocent/ignorant newb.

Also I will add that just because two things are made from the same factory does not necessarily mean that they are the same quality. These factories build things to the customer's specifications as well as make generic frames (of their own specifications) that get branded/labeled with a wide variety of names.

Cycho

Based on the anecdotal evidence, I would agree.


When doing my research, I didn't exactly see this. Not saying it's not true, but I just didn't come across it. Case in point: I bought a Grand Sprint with this configuration:

Aluminum frame with carbon stays, carbon fork, alu seat post
Ritchey BIOMAX II handlebars and Ritchey Stem (110mm)
Ultegra shifters, derailleurs (front/back)
Vuelta XRP wheelset
FSA SLK-Lite MegaEXO Hollow Carbon Fiber Crankset 53/39T

The MSRP they list is $2,495.

By comparison, a Trek 2.3 with a similar frame but with mostly 105 and Bontrager components has an MSRP on Trek's site of $1,800. How much of the $695 difference is inflated? (I use the 2.3 as a comparison since it's the only other alu/carbon bike I test rode before purchasing.)

How prestigious could they be if they went out of business? Plus, these companies or the owners of the rights willingly sold them. That's the free markets at work.


I think that is the real underlying issue as to why BD is hated by some. It is unethical, but they are not the first and won't be the last.


I'll concede that point, but how much nuance do you think goes into each brands frame? Enough to justify that wide price differences?

umd

But the bike does not exist and is not sold except by them, and they are never sold for "MSRP". They are trying to make it look like they are on sale.

Point is people see the same and assume that there is some association with the past.

So because others have done it before it's ok?

There can be huge differences between the design, construction, and manufacturing of different frames. And between some frames there may be no differences at all. Enough to "justify" price differences? Justify is a loaded word...

ZXiMan

Nothing. I love my Le Champion SL.

DiabloScott

halfspeed

Wrong.

Apparently. Start with post #28.

If the names had no prestige ("brand value" in marketing speak), then BD wouldn't have bought them.

Contrary to what Republicans might tell you, that's not a catch-all excuse for anything any business might want to do.

The point, of course, of recycling dead (or sometimes still-living brands with licensing problems) is fooling n00bs (and sometimes even knowledgeable people) into thinking that they are some company other than what they are. I think that's unethical.

If it's anything like the manufacturing industries I've worked in, there's lots of variability.

Cycho

Who doesn't do that? Just about any manufacturer, from bikes, to cars, to washing machines, displays an "MSRP" price and then a sale price. What is that MSRP based on? I don't know, but it's there. I took the time to research "MSRP" or list prices of the various components that are sold with the bike (since bikes are made up of components, perhaps the sum of the components equals the BD MSRP listed.) Based on what I found, they are not far off, in fact, they are under.



Those old enough to remember the original French manufacturer will no doubt realize that these new bikes are not associated since they would know the original company went under way back in 1981. Those that don't can do a quick search and figure it out. Like me, I didn't know Motobecane from butter pecan.



Umm...no. Is it OK that some LBS like to push certain products because the margins are higher or will try to sell a bike that is too small or big for for a customer because they are trying to unload inventory? Also no, but it happens.


So is "huge".

halfspeed

:facepalm:

Cycho

Facepalm. Original and profound.

halfspeed

Sometimes a post is so lacking in clue that it's the only reasonable response.

Maybe someone more patient is willing to explain MSRP, dealer cost and basic retail sales.

Especially since this is territory that has been EXHAUSTIVELY explored in multitudes of other BD threads.

umd

You have got to be kidding. Company A sells product to Stores B and C for $x, recommends selling for $y (MSRP). Company A's website may list the MSRP. Stores B and C can sell for whatever price they want. If in demand they may be able to get away for selling over MSRP but likely competition will cause actual selling price to be below "recommended selling price". Note that manufacturers are not allowed to dictate a minimum selling price, but what they will often do is withold perks if a store advertises for less than a specified price, the MAP (Minimum Advertised Price).

Bikesdirect makes and sells the bike. There is no recommend selling price, there is only a selling price. The "recommended selling price" is make-believe.

kwrides

Thank you!

umd

Also there is a difference between something being on sale temporarily or old stock being marked down, compared to something that is always on sale or marked down. There is a furniture store in town that has been "going out of business" for about 10 years now. Everything must go, 50% off, etc... That's just shady.

Cycho

I apologize for my attempt at an intelligent exhange of thoughts and ideas with you. Lacking in clue? What exactly was lacking in clue? Do tell. You're making assumptions about my understanding and intelligence on the subject with out enough knowledge about me. In bringing up MSRP, my intent was not to get into the intricacies and details of MSRP, dealer cost etc, etc. It was merely to respond to the complaint that BD shows a list price on their site that many feel is inflated. I showed, with empirical data, that the list price displayed is on par when you consider the list price of the individual components that are sold with the bike. Or did you conveniently ignore that part of my post?

If you don't have the patience, time, or desire to explain your position, then ignore the post, but spare me the attitude.

captnfantastic

i crashed 5 times on my motobecane and it didn't break until a uhaul didn't brake.

Cycho

No, I am not kidding, and you don't need to insult my intelligence. I understand how MSRP and retail works. I also understand that BD doesn't make bikes. They resell bikes from a factory. The frames are made by Kinesis, the factory hangs components from various component makers on it, they slap a decal on it and ship it to a BD warehouse somewhere in Texas. BD then resells it from there at their "factory direct pricing".

Here's the bottom line, to quit beating this horse to death again: the BD detractors will always be BD detractors and no amount of evidence or positive reviews about the actual bike will convince the detractors otherwise. They will continue to call out "SHILL" whenever anyone posts anything positive about a BD bike and will continue to wag their fingers saying "I told you so" whenever something negative is posted.

I'm satisfied with my purchase and enjoy riding my bike every chance I get. I ride for me and no one else.

patentcad

Correct.

Everyone else can go F themselves.

As well they should.

halfspeed

I make no assumptions about you whatsoever.

The fact that you attempt to calculate an MSRP by combining the MSRP of the individual components is evidence enough that you have no clue. Never mind that you ADMIT that you don't know what MSRP is based on. And yet you still feel qualified to comment on whether or not BD's MSRPs make sense. That is facepalm worthy on an epic scale.

Sorry about the attitude, but this has been explained ad nauseum, ad vomitum many times over the years yet you guys NEVER seem to get such basic concepts.

halfspeed

Correct, and also irrelevant to the discussion.

patentcad

Oh please. That observation is the only essential one you'll ever read here.

Everything else on BF is utterly meaningless.

patentcad

Ad vomitum?

DwayneS

The first link is simply someone asking about the warranty before buying, the second link is someone that damaged a CF frame on accident, not in normal use, the third one is actually a thread from someone simply asking about Fuji bikes before buying and the post supplies insufficient information but again it is probably a stress crack in CF, and the last picture is a BikesDirect bike!!! (Lightspeed to be exact).

That there is trickery my friends. I just wonder how long it took to gather all that information. The better majority are people actually saying the company fixed the problem at no cost with few or no questions QUICKLY! BD is good in it's own little way for an affordable bike. Other than that:



EDIT: I missed a thread, there was the one bike with cracked paint but that appeared to be an older bike but yes, frames have a lifespan. They all die sooner or later. Sooner with CF and Aluminum.

halfspeed

I'll give you that.

Well if "ad nauseum" is an argument continued to the point of nausea, then "ad vomitum" is one step further.

patentcad

Can't you idiots give this a rest? The last time I saw this much hand-wringing over nothing I was trying to figure out whether or not to buy that stupid Cervelo. Did I subject you to that? And even if I did, does that justify all this?

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

No Motobecane for you.

Tsuru

That's one ugly bike.