Steel frames are TIG welded because it lessens the costs of production. It can be done robotically. It is arguable as to whether or not it weighs any less. Brazing must be done by hand, one frame at a time.

boze, my bad, you are right. I misread something. Sunny

One of the reasons 853 steel is desirable is that TIG welding actually increases the material strength at the weld site.

The down side of TIG vs Brazing is that the heat from welding will distort the frame which then has to be straightened. Brazing happens at a lower temperature without the level distortion of welding.

You can talk in circles about frame materials for years (instead of just riding) and never get agreement: weight, stiffness, dimensions, ride quality, cost etc. The bottom line is ride the bikes your considering on the type of rides you routinely do. Forget the LBS parking lot....go out for 2 hours. In the end, that's all that matters. You can spend an extra $1000 to shave 5 pounds on a bike, but if your 10 pounds overweight, how smart was that?!

you are right, i misread the info.

A lugged frame uses "lugs" that the tubes fit into and are then "brazed" in place (low heat welding basically)

Image of a BB lug;
https://www.ceeway.com/Graphicpages/0...SHELLS2003.gif

Butted frames are when the frame tubing is "butted" against each other and then welded in place.

Ok, just did it. Put a deposit on a 2004 Jamis Satellite. Let's see, someone in China is digging up steel as we speak, by Monday a mold will be complete, by Wednesday, it will be shipped to another factory, by Friday, they'll start putting wheels on it, brakes...

If I ride it enough, I may upgrade.

Hope to receive it in two weeks. Can't wait.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Sunny

Many...... The 2004 Jamis Satellite is a nice looking bike. The chrome is just amazing. A dealer wants me to buy a 2002 Jamis Aurora for $250.00! I just might take his offer. Jamis makes really good steel bikes.

First, don't get confused between butted frames and butted tubes. All high quality steel frames will have butted tubing. Butted frame tubes are thicker at the joints for strength. Unbutted tubes are joint thickness end to end so they are much heavier.

Back to your question; in general lugged frames are stronger while tig welded frames are slightly lighter. Lugged construction allows frames to be brazed at lower temperatures which means that joining process has less effect on the metallurgical properties of the frame. Air hardened steels have somewhat mitigated this issue, though.

my old trek elance 400 had lugs that were brazed by robots