Flash

I've got a 12-mile TT in a few weeks. Below is a quick video of my current position. Background:

-- 45 yrs old
-- 5'9" 145 lbs (just like Contador ;-)
-- I'm not a very flexible guy
-- Frame is a Blue T-14 51cm
-- Saddle is Adamo Race
-- Aerobars are approx 2 7/8 inches apart

Overall I'm comfortable riding in the below position. From time-to-time I do experience some muscle fatigue in the shoulder area. Reading comments in an earlier TT fit thread re: maintaining concentration, it occurred to me that I should try to eliminate this shoulder muscle fatigue. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.


EDIT: seat raised approx 1 inch total from baseline. I did not adjust saddle forward since it was UCI illegal and the extra inch height gets closer to 5cm nose from BB (I know UCI rules may not apply to my races, but better safe than sorry). Overall everything more comfortable during short test, will have to check on the road:

patentcad

Try lower elbows to flatten out your back. But the key is comfort, if you can't stay aero, it doesn't matter. As low as you can go and stay comfortable.

kimconyc

I am not an expert in bike fitting and my personal bikes (road bikes) are set up from feel since I just ride for fun and not to win.

Having said that, your saddle looks way too low because at full extension, you have a lot of bend in the knees, thus probably not transferring power optimally.

Also, your pedal stroke is a bit off as you are pedaling with your toes to the ground, thus also most likely not transferring more power there (upstroke).

Lastly, for most of the 18 second video, your face is to the ground and your helmet is pointing up. If you ride like this in real life, what's the point of the aero helmet?

You mention Contador. Watch his riding style here and look at his position, rhythm in stroke, and notice the helmet:


These are my opinions/suggestions, take them for what they are...

lovestoride

looks like u need to raise ur seat a little looks like theres almost no bend

ptle

Like others have said... seat looks really low and your toes are pointed down too much. Try to keep your foot more parallel to the ground.

Flash

thanks for taking the time. On the helmet, out on the road of course I'm looking more forward. Cool Contador video. I will study it.

kimconyc

It's not so much about the foot being more parallel or not but rather, it is pretty much impossible to transfer optimal power on the upstroke like how OP pedals.

Fun experiment, try pedaling with toes down and pedal with one leg (/w clipless pedals)

Grumpy McTrumpy

forget about the toes



Cancellara does just fine with toes down.

Grumpy McTrumpy

my suggestion is to close this thread, get a good TT fitting and enjoy.

kimconyc

Is that how he got smoked by Contador on the Stage 18 ITT, 2009 Tour de France but made an excuse that the motorbikes were somehow motor-pacing Contador?

Just saying...

Quel

I hope you normally look up when you ride? Your helmet is pointing in a direction that probably makes it way less aero than a normal one.

Edit: someone already pointed that out I guess...bleh.

merlinextraligh

Conventional wisdom would indicate that dropping your head(and raising the tail of the helmet) would be an aerodynamic negative.

However, the data suggests its more aero. The explanation is that when you drop your head, you effectively close the vents, and stopping the airflow through the helmet more than offsets the fin sticking up.

Of course, when you hit the Tractor trailer you didn't see coming, that can F up your aerodynamics.

Flash

second video, seat raised 1/2 inch, more comfortable for shoulders and pedal stroke feels more efficient:

CyciumX

Raise that seat another half inch...

...then proceed to lower it if necessary. Just by continuous observation it looks as if you haven't tried a myriad of different positions which is something you must do to knock out the unknowns.

jrobe

I wouldn't worry about the "toes down" comments. A TT position should have a pretty similiar position and hip angle as your road bike, just rotated more forward. If you are rotated more forward with the pivot point being the hips, the toes are going to be pointed more downward as seen from the side. As an extreme example, if you were rotated even more forward with the same hip angle, you would be pedaling comfortably with cranks further back and your toes pointing straight down.

As someone mentioned, the goal is to be as aero as you can be comfortably (with an emphasis on comfort). The limiting factor for me on my TT bike is my neck. You have to look forward to see the road well and there is a limit to how far I can extend my neck backward.

Flash

Thanks. Good point on comfort. I want to eliminate the shoulder fatigue. It drives me nuts when my legs are feeling good during intense training, but my shoulders start to burn. Breaks concentration.

Flash

EDIT: seat raised approx 1 inch total from baseline. I did not adjust saddle forward since it was UCI illegal and the extra inch height gets closer to 5cm nose from BB (I know UCI rules may not apply to my races, but better safe than sorry). Overall everything more comfortable during short test, will have to check on the road:

Grumpy McTrumpy

unless you are going to Nationals, forget the UCI rule.

Flash

Not going to Nationals...this year ;-)

CyciumX

fuller leg extension feels good, no? Now, you gotta straighten that back out and extend the bars

waterrockets 

Straight back varies for different people -- nothing wrong with a curved back as long as that is the right position for you.

Your biggest problem is that your shoulders are too high, so you're catching a lot of air. As mentioned above, get as low as you can hold it for your TT duration. Work on flexibility. It took me about six weeks to get from not being able to touch my toes lock-kneed to being able to get my forehead to my locked knees, and my road a TT positions improved dramatically with it. My shoulders are nearly level with my hips now, and I can ride like that for 6 hours.

The two basic keys are low and narrow. Do what you can, then start doing coast tests for different changes (check max coast speed on the same hill on a near-windless day).

waterrockets 

Straight back varies for different people -- nothing wrong with a curved back as long as that is the right position for you.

Your biggest problem is that your shoulders are too high, so you're catching a lot of air. As mentioned above, get as low as you can hold it for your TT duration. Work on flexibility. It took me about six weeks to get from not being able to touch my toes lock-kneed to being able to get my forehead to my locked knees, and my road a TT positions improved dramatically with it. My shoulders are nearly level with my hips now, and I can ride like that for 6 hours.

The two basic keys are low and narrow. Do what you can, then start doing coast tests for different changes (check max coast speed on the same hill on a near-windless day).

Flash

Thanks for these tips. Quick question on getting as low as possible: I'm assuming the key factor here is flexibility rather than lowering the aerobar module? I've considered a zero rise stem as well as some trickery with the aerobars to drop them lower, but I'm guessing that if I can become more flexible in the hamstring/lower back area, this will naturally lower me, straighten my back, and get my elbow/forearm closer to 90 degrees? (which will then lead to more adjustments ;-)

For the first time in my life I have been working on flexibility, specifically hamstrings, calves, lower back and I'm making some progress. Which exercises are you doing to increase flexibility? And when you say one of the keys is narrow, are you referring to bringing the elbows and hands as close together as possible?

waterrockets 

No, your shoulder vs. hip height is mostly determined by your elbow height (and upper arm angle). To get lower, you can:
-lower the cockpit on the steerer tube
-get a negative stem (or adjustable)
-lower the aero bar pads (get creative and look at what's under them)
-move the extensions back and tip them up (will lower your elbows)
-raise your saddle, which would come naturally if you move your saddle forward
-get a frame with a shorter head tube

Whether any of this is a good idea or not depends on your overall fit. Can you hold such a position? Can you develop power in such a position? How much will you adapt to a new position? Are you committed to 1-2 rides/week over an hour in this position (elbows in the pads)?

Grumpy McTrumpy

you could remove the spacers.