With all the recent news about doping in cycling, I got to wondering: Anyone ever seen any reasonable estimates as to how much EPO, blood doping, or other methods would help one's VO2 max, lactate threshold, and other measures?

I'm assuming there aren't any experiments around on this, but just wondered what the payoff for a highly-trained athlete would be expected to be. We assume it's pretty big, but then again anything that gives one the slightest edge in a tight field might be worth it.

I know for the grand tours, using EPO just to keep your RBC count about normal over the course of the race would help toward the end.

Edit: I, uh, want to know for...a friend. Yeah, he's a Cat 5 and picked the wrong parents. Which totally isn't fair. So what's wrong with leveling the field a bit?

Epic thread title.

Here is an article that was published a few years back where a cyclist did this.. Very interesting reading.

https://outside.away.com/outside/body...ug_test_1.html

Great read - thanks for the link!

From the author of the article ... here is the truth ...

Start here: https://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/01/doping.html

:

There's an interesting post here from a Cat 1

Google Francesco Conconi and (Lance's favourite doctor) Michele Ferrari.

Strange how the Spanish seem to be winning everything, maybe Dr. Fuentes is back in business - prescription for Rafa anyone?

i need to get me some drugs!

Enough to make people do it.

Make?!?!

I love the new Nissan banner ads that pop up here on BF: "Discover the science behind [Lance Armstrong's] legendary performance."

Yeah, let's.

Do you think the irony of that statement is lost on Nissan?

"When EPO emerged in the late eighties, blood packing became passé. EPO occurs naturally in the body, but only in tiny amounts. Researchers at Amgen Inc., a California pharmaceutical company, figured out how to synthesize it in quantities that could help people who weren't producing enough red blood cells, like cancer patients suffering from anemia."

- from the doping article.

Maybe some of you guys already knew this, but does anyone else see the irony in Amgen sponsoring the Tour of California, when they are responsible for the development of EPO?

Here's what Andy Hampsten said:

"I saw Greg (Lemond) race as a champion through the 80s, and into the 90s when the cycling community as a whole turned a blind eye towards doping and consciously ignored the onslaught of EPO in the peloton,” Andy Hampsten told Velo News in 2004. “Like Greg, I, too, saw what I believe were the effects of EPO when it entered pro cycling in the early 90s. In the first years it grew froma few individuals reaping obscene wins from exploiting its ‘benefits’,to entire teams relying on it, essentially forcing all but the most gifted racers to either use EPO to keep their place in cycling, quit or become just another obscure rider in the group.

The quintessential grimpeur, Hampsten was a former Giro winner and had won on Alpe d’Huez in 1992, placing 4th overall that year. Even by 1993 he was struggling and in that year’s Tour he was 8th, behind the unheralded Zenon Jaskula and Johan Bruyneel, amongst others (he could manage a top-ten in most of the mountain stages, except for a disastrous 32nd, just over 4 minutes down, on the seven-climb monster 15th stage in the Pyrenees).

“Everyone knows everyone else’s relative abilities. Of course, that changes, people get better and get worse, but it was an open secret from the early 90s on,” Hampsten said in an interview this year. For him, he noted at the time in other reports, he knew what his capabilities were and was relatively consistent from year to year in the level he reached and when he peaked. The problem was with everyone else.

“It went, during the 90s, it went from, ‘Wow, I’m not winning; it’s getting a lot harder to win a race that’s either a time trial or has hills or mountains’, to ‘it’s really hard to stay with the first group of fifty guys’.”

https://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/99

here here, i'll see your Amgen sponsorship & raise you this

Now for more unintentional irony: they hang a yellow jersey from the ToC signed by Flandis in the company gym back in 2006. I did an internship that summer, and people were pretty stoked that the same guy signed the jersey is now crushing souls in France. I wonder where that jersey has gone since then. In all honesty, you can't fault Amgen for producing EPO: you can only fault unscrupulous doctors for diverting the supply. Nothing to see here, move along.

I remember reading the Outside article when it came out. The improved eyesight thing really struck me as it related to baseball. You need power for homers, but you have to see the ball first.

Wow, great thread guys. Drugs are awesome.

I had an iced coffee 160miles into a 200. Pretty much felt like that.

This has been very educational.

But having lasik surgery is OK.
Actually the latest thing is contact lenses that enhance your ability to see the color red - The seams which allows you to better pick-up the spin/rotation on the ball)
BTW one thing not mentioned about HGH, it also increases the risk of tumors/cancer growth and diabetes. (and while my post may not infer it, I am against the idea of legalizing HGH for sport/athletic competition)

That's kind of scary. What I find odd is that the author would let his PBP ride be tainted by the use of PEDs. And even though PBP is not a race it still seems like cheating to me since finishing times are a matter of pride, and others would aspire to match your (tainted) efforts.

We need a head scratch smilie. You don't realize the guy is a writer and not a cyclist and the point was taking the drugs to write the article and not to do well in a bike tour?

I already have the needles (we give my cat insulin shots every day). All I need is the EPO.


Bring it.

He is a cyclist, on the first page he mentions how he cycles and skies cross country.

What I find odd is that someone would be willing to put in the training for PBP and let it be tainted by the drugs. And PBP is not "a bike tour".

I was going to go there, but didn't want to babble...

I know a 12 yr. old kid who's already had lasik surgery to allow him to continue to perform at a high level in baseball. Unbelievable what some people are willing to do to themselves - and their kids.

(As part of full disclosure, I bought glasses for one of my kids to be able to continue to perform at a high level in lacrosse in high school. )