I don't get why somebody would care to distinguish which cyclist is the most original... the fact is we're all copy-cats or impersonators and if we aren't now we were at one time!

This whole conversation is like some silly baby-boomer, gen Y discussion... a weak vessel to slander somebody else without understanding or appreciating them.

I'm glad someone else has noticed! Additionally, when I started racing in 1977 I didn't have a mortgage or a daughter to put through college. Even though I may earn just under six-figures now it all goes to service numerous debts with little left over for cycling.

So people should base a country's culture based on what television shows said country puts out? Weird.

But thats not what the post I was replying to was implying. In the specific way you are talking about, yes, it may be becoming 'the new golf'.

OP makes me think of the Luc Sante quote from Low Life:

". . .bereft of purpose except to evoke vague images of an era about which little need be known other than that it was a 'simpler time.' The common word for this kind of distortion is 'nostalgia.' This word can be generally defined as a state of inarticulate contempt for the present and fear of the future, in concert with a yearning for order, constancy, safety, and community-- qualities that were last enjoyed in childhood and are retroactively imagined as gracing the whole of the time before one's birth. . . in this function it encompasses connoisseurship, fetishism, fashion cycles, and social history, and makes them all equally base coin."

aka the conservative right.

This is crazy.

I started this post to celebrate how people from all walks of life are enjoying cycling, it seemed to me that more affluent people these days are participating than in the past. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS.
I love looking at all the bling.

I certainly wasn't implying that hard working blue collar riders are tougher and better riders, or that white collar riders cannot achieve the same standard, nor am I belittling the admirable work professional people do. What manual labour does is it conditions the body for endurance, a durable strength that one will not achieve by simply riding their bike or pumping iron. In my experience as a hard working manual labourer, I've seen muscle heads that are good for a few days, but generally can't cope with the daily grind that hardened workers endure.

In the past that's what competitive cycling ranks were generally made up off, so if any white collar workers on BF still don't understand what I'm saying and are still getting offended, I would have thought your higher level of education and enlightenment would have made my point easier to comprehend than for us grunts who sweat to earn our every dollar. I have already implied that I love how cycling brings us all together on the same level.

Stop being so precious.

qft

I've never seen or heard of that from any of the hundred or so riders I've met in the states -- so it must be an Aussie thing. Wow, you guys are soft -- or at least your current generation is. No wonder you guys are always getting shellacked by the Kiwis.

I think there is something to this. I am reminded of the sport of rowing, and how Jack Kelly - a bricklayer - was not permitted to compete at England's Henley Regatta. Amateur rules at the time made people ineligible if they were paid professionals (obviously), or if they made their living through manual labor. Jack Kelly got his revenge at the Olympics, which did not have such rules.

I think that the upper class who were practicing rowing were, at the time, able to control the competition because they, at some level, must have known what you know - that working manual labor develops a very different psychological and physical endurance that is very difficult to develop through other means.

Greens fees are $3 for kids and seniors ($6 for adults) at our local Par 3 course. You can rent a club for $1.

Either sport suck up as much of your cash as you let it.

...and I meant "the new golf" in a positive way, in case any of you misinterpreted that.

Ahhh, but just think of the positive outcome if we got Rush Limbaugh on a bike and helped make it an enjoyable experience for him! Oops, me thinks this may be drifting a wee bit too far into P&R land . . .

You mean like spiking his HEED w/ painkillers?

Wait wait, haha lets look at the average case?? Golf is the most expensive hobby in the long run... the more you golf the more it costs... to road ride is pretty darn cheap, most of the cost is fixed. I'd bet the average golf tournaments costs more to enter than your average race also.

It is blatantly obvious to me that I should just shut up, get my damaged brain wiring redone, not post any of my opinions, conform to BF's intellectual giants and become a coma induced brainless robot. I only wish that I could reach those lofty heights of reverence in such rarified company, but alas, it is above my lowly station.

I now know my fittingly miniscule role on BF is to grovel at the feet of BF's chosen ones, may they find in their closed minds a place of fleeting thoughts of tolerance for such a worm as I.

BTW, that is friendly Aussie sarcasm.

A) Cycling is not the new golf. The article you speak of was a NY Times article (which alone any trend being spouted on the NY Times either indicates it is bogus or past its fresh date). Not only was it in the Times, it was relating to networking in Silicon Valley. Look - I live in Denver, and work in the business community...guess what - even for this cycling centric part of the country, golf still rules when it comes to planning ways to entertain clients. The problem with cycling, is that if anyone is actually serious enough about riding for a business to consider entertaining said client through cycling, then the ride pace is going to be too fast for long chats.

B) As for cycling, and its cost....I think the cost has increased substantially in part because the technology has increased substantially in the last 30 years compared the previous 60 years. I think as carbon bike push the technological limits, and as more consumers realize that except for a few standout engineering shops (Cannondale, Cervelo, Trek, Colnago etc...), most are nothing more than bike painters (think Ridley or Bianchi (sad to say it) at this point). This is going to result in bikes becoming harder to differentiate. To be honest, the cost of carbon is going to be the main driver for cost in the future, and if they ever, ever find a way to lay carbon without human labor, then the costs is going to plummet.

C) That being said, in theory, you could speck a bike that is still better than any of the early 70's bikes (which we were told retailed for $250.00 back then, $900.00 in today's dollars). The only difference is that it is not top of the line. And quite frankly, if you either are not interested in racing, it does not matter. I wish we could get this through the heads of so many of the people on this forum...pay attention to your legs, and less attention to the cranks your legs are attached to.

Ditto.

Chin up, mate. You are, like me, a "geezer" (in Howzit's vein), and in exchange for the insight that comes with that station, you must suffer the insolence of know-nothings on BF.

Be assured that, just as the change in the world of cycling you thoughtfully noted in your OP occurred, change will also occur on BF.

It's an American thing (and partly a Canadian thing, too, I sadly admit). Americans are extremely passive-aggressive when it comes to any perceived slight, no matter how tiny. They don't have the rough-and-tumble tradition of debate and give-and-take that we do in the commonwealth countries. Just look at our parliaments in comparison with their...whatever their government is called. Does the president ever debate issues in an open forum, such as in a parliament (hence the term "parliamentary debate")? Don't think so. He's coddled and protected.


This has been my experience with Americans, too. And, it must be said, some Canadians, as well.

Does this thread have a point yet?

I'm with stevgor and rousseau

I like a argumentative dinner table. keeps things interesting and obscures how much wine is being downed.

Ill tell you whats moronic, one assuming they are an expert on cycling because they have watched a bunch of Lance Armstrong commercials...
Now you know what a 99er is.
I can only imagine your excitement when you thought you had an argument, but all you have shown is that you dont get it.

P.S Do you happen to ride with a yellow jersey? Because if you do, ill tell you that before 99 if you wore a yellow jersey for training, other cyclists would box you into a gutter and make sure to leave you dead on the side of the road.

I started road cycling after college, it had nothing to do with Lance. Don't wear a yellow jersey, but good job assuming. You do the word proud.

I agree , but I do know us 'contrarian argumentative lively debate' types exist in the States. We're just a bit more rare than I think is healthy for a country this big and powerful.