I was wondering what your take was on this. I own a 56cm Allez with a 100mm stem, which makes the effective top tub (plus stem) around 665mm. I tend to lock out my elbows and then later on down the ride my shoulders and neck start cramping. I can relieve tension by bending my elbows but my weak core and triceps start to get tired, then I lock out my elbows again.

There are a few things I'm constantly thinking about on the bike. One is "Pedal in circles" and the other is "bend your elbows"

Recently, I went to my LBS to try out a different stem. They gave me a 75mm stem to test ride for a weekend and it was great. I didn't have any cramping in the shoulders on long rides, and I was alright with the steering, but of course it was more responsive and needed more finesse in hard sprints. It looked stumpy, but whatever.

I'm not in a position to buy a smaller frame and before I do go and buy this stem, I was just wondering, is my shoulder problem something that every new rider starts out with? I wish I could use the longer stem, because I feel like that's what I should be using, but I'm not strong enough. the short stem seems like a crutch.

Keep in mind that my setup with the long stem doesn't put me in a ridiculously stretched out position - the fit appears pretty normal.

Anyway, thoughts?

Did you get fitted by the bike shop, or did you just ask for a smaller stem?

I just asked for a smaller stem and took it on a 40 mile ride.

I went from a 10 cm to 9 cm stem and felt a big difference.
Going from 10 cm to 7.5 cm sounds like a huge jump.

IMO, if it feels more comfortable and you don't have to constantly remind yourself "not to lock the elbows" stay with the shorter stem (but maybe try a 8 or 9 cm).

Also, what about moving the saddle forward 1cm and up 1cm (maybe .5)? Would that be worth trying or am I pulling too many levers here?

you should not move the saddle at all to compensate for reach.

if you don't have any back problems and simply have a body that isn't used to it...HTFU and keep on riding the 100m (assuming the bike actually fits you).

I used to not be able to use the 120mm stem that came on my bike. Had to use a 110 instead.

Then, after a year or two, the 110 started to feel cramped... and I put the 120 back on. Perfect.

Stems are cheap, buy the stem. Sounds to me like you're stretched too far out. I took my 100 off and went with, I believe, 80 on my race bike. Made worlds of difference.

Don't touch your saddle. Fore/aft is for positioning your body over the pedals properly, not for getting a comfortable reach.

Sounds like the problem is that you're falling forward on the bike, putting too much weight on your hands and trying to compensate by locking your elbows. If that's the case, move your seat back. It sounds counterintuitive, but moving the seat back takes the weight off your hands.

With the seat setback properly, you should be able to take your hands off the drops and be able to hold that position without falling forward. If you move the seat back, you'll also have to lower the seat slightly.

I would keep the short stem. As you noticed, shortening the stem by 25 mm makes a pretty marginal difference in handling, so if it's more comfortable, use it. Eventually you might get stronger and go back to the longer stem.

This. But you may also need the shorter stem, at least for a while. I solved a very similiar problem by using a 2cm shorter stem, but make sure your saddle position is correct first.

Got a fit with my 110mm stem. Was told that I was on the VERY edge of fitting that stem and if I decided to replace it to get a 100mm or 90mm stem. Felt too stretched out and had lower back pain on longer rides.

Jumped to the 90mm stem, same degree of angle and it was much better. It was a big jump, but worked out. Cannot stress enough the importance of a fitting. I may not have changed anything and tried to suffer through it. Doesn't cost that much and the return on investment is feeling great on your sled...

Perhaps this is the best solution. Core work.

When I was fitted at the shop when I bought the bike they did the whole plumbob thing and 30-degree bend thing and since then I've never had any knee problems and at the end of a hard workout my thighs feel pretty evenly worked-out (sore glutes, hammies, and quads) so I'm guessing the saddle is right.

Then again, there's that article on Sheldon's site about KOPS being a bunch of BS (just look at time trial-ists position), and that it's mainly about rotating the rider around the BB, regardless of gravity. Of course, TTers use aero bars to support their weight.

I've heard about moving the saddle back to take weight off the hands. I find it interesting and I think it's possible I could get away with it without being "stretched out". Maybe I'll give that a try.

It's funny, but every little movement requires a long ride to find out if it worked. 1cm = 40 miles, haha

dont sacrifice your comfort on the bike for vanity. buy the shorter stem, ride with it for a while, and if you start to feel cramped, or the need to stretch out more, buy a 90. maybe sometime after you're a little better adjusted you can go to the 100, maybe not. maybe the frame is on the large side for you, and this short stem is what you need. either way, dont ride a longer stem and hope to "grow into it" - thats silly. buy what makes you comfortable NOW, or you're going to hate your bike.

buy a cheap stem that feels better for now, but do some core work and upper body work so you won't feel so sore.

Roger.

plus, I'll be saving some weight!

Are u sure the bike is the right size for you? Unless u are like hermit the frog with 120 inches legs and 3 inches torso (making up stuff)

Just asking because going from a 10 to a 7 is clear that something is wrong and since you are not saying nothing else than i ride what ever, so no way to know what is going on.

Big chances the frame is too big plus seat position and who knows what else, would you post a picture of the bike please?

That's really more of a terrible curse.

Yea, I do have long legs apparently. I'd be better on a 54cm bike since the top-tube also shortens by about 2cm in most cases, but I'm not in the position to buy a new bike, especially for something that's only mildly uncomfortable after 45miles.

I rode a 52 cm and it felt great, but the seat post was really high. Basically, I think what I'm most comfortable in is a very sharp bend at the hips with the bars being really low and close. As long as my knees don't clip anything and the bike handles alright, what's the big deal right? I really don't understand why bike companies still list sizes in terms of the seat tube, but that's another thread. I might post pictures later.

Now a days u have to find the size based in the virtual length of the bike or you can end up with a super long bike.

Have you try to swap the frame with somebody?

You're approaching the "it ain't broke" zone with your current bike. Sounds like everything right now is good, except the shoulder/neck pain stuff. If a shorter stem will fix that, do it, you're done.

You should be reasonably comfortable (or better) doing the rides you want to do. That's the goal, right?