Oh wait, was that not the point???

Unethical?

Thank ya. Hope SoCal is treating you well.

When I ride alone I don't want some random donk pulling up behind me and act like we're Alberto and Andy racing for yellow...I'm riding alone because I don't want to ride with YOU...I want to ride at my own pace, sometimes fast and sometimes AVERAGE (we all know what average is, faster than your slowest and slower than your fastest) Find someone you know if you wanna draft... Or maybe

This.

I expect but don't like drafters even on group rides. Aside the fact that most people suck at drafting, the instant you have someone on your wheel, you have to adjust your riding style accordingly.

My general attitude is that if you can catch me from behind, you're faster and should continue on. If I catch you from behind, I'm faster so you should just let me by. If you're in trouble and need a tow, I'm happy to oblige. If you're looking for someone to ride faster with and don't feel like yakking, take the lead and see what I do. If I'm looking for a partner, I'll pick up the pace and will eager to take a pull myself pretty soon.

I think it also has a lot to do with where you're riding. It seems to be accepted that you don't latch on to a stranger here in CO. I found that wheels were free in South Florida though. It was often hard to identify, let alone squeeze in, on the back side of my group.

Colorado:
* Lots of small groups (2-4 folks)
* Hills break up packs
* More routes than you can shake a stick at

Observations from my single ride in SE Florida:
* Lots of groups containing a dozen or more riders
* No hills
* Gusty winds
* One route, an out and back on A1A

Someone drafting you is putting you in danger. A danger that is minimized when two riders have the proper skills and are working together. You have no idea how skilled the idiot behind you is, and ignoring him is the worst thing you could do. Try ignoring him when you have to slow down and he crashes you.

True story: I blew my nose on the Belgian National Champion in San Clemente, CA a few Saturdays ago. (At least he was wearing the jersey.) Honest mistake which never would have happened if he'd said hello or bothered to take a turn.

prolly why he was po'd to begin with...

Note to self..... NEVER , EVER argue with UMD, His logic will shred anything I can say and I mean this with complete respect.

I generally like to be asked and will take the opportunity to drop someone who didn't. One guy pushed me outside by cutting a hairpin turn then went back behind me. Not fun.

And just like when driving, it is illegal.

I hate snot rockets so much. too many people here do it in the dang paceline. PULL OUT OF THE DANG PACELINE

They just have to learn how to do it properly. Lean down, stick your hand out and down palm forward and shoot between your hand and the ground. The hand makes it clear what is happening and shields the rider behind from any errant spray, but most should go straight down to the ground. If nobody is behind me I don't do all the extra stuff.

wut?

And therein lies the problem (aside from the safety issue).

Two groups, A and B. A (our roadies) is doing 20 and approaches B who is doing 18. A passes B. B speeds up to 20 and sucks A's wheel. A can now either: Stop talking about how mountain bikers are drunks, or slow down to 18 to B will pass. Well, A really likes hating on mountain bikes so they slow. B shoots off, realizes that 20 is harder without a wheel to suck and slows back to 18. A speeds up slightly and comes up on B again. Now A and B are locked in together until B admits that his pace isn't as fast if he's not sucking wheel and should mind his own business and give people their personal space.

It would be fine if B followed a few bike lengths back, so stopping times would be appropriate, but B has essentially moved inside of A's bubble. Definitely rude. And since it's bicycling, and drafting is such a big effect, A can't just up the pace a bit and get away.

I don't think unethical is the word. Jackassery is.

But we weren't in a paceline. The Belgian National Champion and his two friends were just sitting stealthily on my wheel without my knowledge for god-knows-how-long. I promise I'd never have hucked an oyster at him if I'd known he was there.

Heads up for you stealth-drafters: Calamarichris s'not your superdomestique.

Tailgating is illegal (At least it is where I live).

Learn any new Euro profanity that day?

[QUOTE]I know a guy who had a wheel touch from behind. Not sure how it lined up, but the rider in back flew off and their bike spun over handlebars forward and the fork somehow gashed into his chain stay or seat stay, I forget which. He went down too. This happened because he braked and the rider in back didn't.

His frame is still okay, just dinged up the Ti.

If someone's on your wheel without your knowing it's a sign that you should be paying better attention to what's behind you.

If someone sits on your wheel and you don't feel like pulling them, move over and slow up for a second so they come up beside you and start a conversation. (For the socially awkward, you do this by saying "Hi! How's it going? Where are you headed?" Or ask about their bike. It's not hard). Once you have broken the ice, you're someone to (temporarily) ride with, not just a wheel to draft. You might meet someone interesting. I've met all sorts of cool people on the road this way. It's a lot more enjoyable than riding along silently resenting the rider on your wheel.

Sometimes if someone passes me, I chase them. I never ride on their wheel, might get close to them if we're dodging people on a crowded MUP, but I'm never sucking their wheel. Just following and hoping they play a long and give me someone to chase. Now that I type that out, it sounds a lot creepier than I mean it to be...

But yeah, you gotta at least give them a bike length or two to manuever (and so you have stopping distance).

If they dont think it's wrong to draft me, then they better not think it's wrong if I blow my nose and the result hits them.

I do. Every other day or so. That's why they get tedious.

I don't particularly care about training results or sense of satisfaction - I already have all the work I need. I ride because it's non-work and enjoyable as well as sociable. Informal drafting is a way to socialize and meet people. I put my competitive personality into my business (where there's actually something to win), and switch it off while on the bike (where there's nothing to win).

Yeah, something about "nagaboort-ya" and "klootzak".