BarracksSi

That's the other aspect that I've got reservations about. Not so much any difference in effort, but determining a shift by how far you push a lever instead of which lever you push. It's like the difference between trimming the FD and shifting it -- I have to be a bit more conscious when all I want to do is trim.

Flatballer

I've ridden 2010 Force for a little over a year now. I was using Shimano (9 speed Dura Ace) before that. I don't even think about what I'm doing, it's just natural now. I wouldn't worry about having to "think" about shifting.

I've also never really had a problem with shifting the front on the bike. When it's in the stand I have to get my hand in the right place to shift it, because it is kinda strong, but I've never had a problem on the bike.

cooleric1234

Fair enough. I don't pretend to know it all. I was under the impression that not all of Shimano's offerings were compatible but happy to learn the real state of affairs.

JeffS

Misrouted cables.

Route on the backside of the bars and minimize bends. Consider using better cables as well. A poorly routed bike feels exactly as you describe. I know... I have one sitting in my garage right now. I also have several more sram bikes that shift with very little effort. The difference is night and day.

cooleric1234

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems a road triple derailluer wouldn't necessarily work. It would have the total capacity that is needed but I believe they also specify a maximum sprocket size, which for Shimano road offerings is now usually around 28T.

I had heard that you could run a mountain derailleur but I just kind of discounted that as being kind of kludgy. I just wasn't interested in that. In retrospect I don't know why, if it works it works.

cooleric1234

For the rear shifting I got used to it by the end of the ride. I was shifting less in the front so it still took a little thought. I have no doubt it would become second nature. Plus you hear and feel the click, so it's not like it's a guessing game.

roshea

That is not correct.

cooleric1234

Can someone set the record straight on this one then?

ThinLine

I have minimal bends in cables which are OEM SRAM. The bike was built up by my excellent LBS, who is a great mechanic and understands (and loves) SRAM. Perhaps I just find better torque leverage with SHimano than SRAM shifting. Whole hand versus fingers movement.
DON'T get me wrong, I think 2010 Force is fabulous minus the braking which can't even almost compare to Dura-Ace.
Thanks

BarracksSi

https://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...ty%20Chart.pdf
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/231157-shimano-compatibility-charts.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/428537-dura-ace-7900-backward-compatibility.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/194859-shimano-compatibility-questions.html

Certainly more complex than Sram interchangeability.

cooleric1234

Thanks, that's interesting. If I'm reading that first link correctly the original example I gave was correct? I can't use my 7900 Dura-Ace shifters with Tiagra front derailleur and Ultegra 6700 rear derailleur? Again, not that I'd do that, but just an extreme example.

alexvpaq

If your front shifter is that hard to shift you should consider changing the cable I had this problem on my tiagra shifters and it went from hard like destroying a brick wall with my tongue to Smoother than plowing through ice cream with a red hot iron bar~

LoL

BarracksSi

I think that's right. Somewhere in the past month I saw a compatibility chart that included 7800, too.

This the thing about Shimano that bugs me the most. There's no practical reason to have such a complex compatibility matrix. I can think of two possible reasons: 1) the engineers in the different road, MTB, and street groups are fiddling with their own projects and not communicating well with each other, or 2) they want to push customers into changing entire groupsets instead of going piece-by-piece. I had a good idea that my 7800 shifters would work with my 6600 FD and RD, but I wanted to see it in print to be sure.

On the other hand, I can expect any Sram 10sp part to work with any other. I can use first-generation Red shifters with an XX long-cage RD and Apex FD if I want to.

milliron

I have noticed none of the issues that the OP listed on my SRAM Red setup. I specifically love the ergonomics and how mechanical and precise the shifting feels.

I have over 1200 miles on my Red group after several years with Ultegra 6600. Also, it was setup by an excellent mechanic.

crhilton

Shimano is smart and I'd guess #2. They want to avoid people buying the dura ace shifters and low end derailleurs. Which is something I'd probably do if I were still buying Shimano groups.

Or it could be that they're trying to prevent, as much as possible, bike manufacturers from mixing groups and pretending it's the high end group when really they picked 3 parts of the high end group (I hate it when manufacturers do that, especially when it's the crank that they swapped out).

I really like SRAM's compatibility.

Their levers aren't the greatest thing ever, but I like the interface and they fit my hands.