This could be a dumb question... but.
Do different shifters have different "throw" distances when pushing to shift?
Old bike had 105 shifters, new bike has Tiagra, and I'm not sure if it's just me, but it seems like I'm pushing the shifter *really* far to get it to shift. Might be my tiny girly hands, (could it be adjustment? - It's about time for the cables to be tweaked a little because the shifting is getting worse but the throw has always been too far.) but I remember the 105 not being that bad. It's really hard to shift in the drops, and not as easy as I would like on the hoods either. I can reach the lever, but then have to rotate my wrist around to get the shift completed.

In general I'm ok with the Tiagra group, but it seems less precise and more clunky than the 105/Ultegra group that was on the old bike.

Anyone have any experience with SRAM Apex or Rival that can clue me in on if it would be better for smaller hands?

(No, they're not like the tiny hands in the Burger King commercial)

I've used both SRAM and Shimano. I really like SRAM because it has a more compact feel, and I believe the lever throw is a lot shorter (especially with Red and Zero Loss). They've advertised it to have a 1:1 pull ratio. So however far you push the lever, that's how far the rear derailleur moves (3mm to shift)... At least I think that's what it means.

I use SRAM Rival shifters and have it to the smallest setting. Not because I have small hands, but I like how they feel. Also SRAM has a dedicated shift lever that isn't integrated with the brake lever (like Shimano). With SRAM it's a lot easier for me to shift. In the drops I can easily upshift three with a single finger. I push the lever over and towards me. You can't do this with Shimano, because you'll pull the rear brakes.

I don't think that's quite right. My understanding of the 1:1 ratio is that 1mm of cable pull results in 1mm of lateral RD movement. Lever throw is going to measured in degrees or radians, so the actual linear distance you move it depends on where on the lever you're pushing. Regardless, I think have to move the lever more than 3mm to even get past the "release" motion.

This is described under "exact actuation" here: https://www.sram.com/technology/187/t...m-road/src/cat

Don't put salt in the KoolAid!

I'm curious about the OP's question too. I have small hands and Tiagra shifters and have some trouble. I use shims to bring the levers closer to the handlebars, but the throw is still a problem. Basically I can't shift to the big ring in front while riding in the drops without involving a lot of elbow movement and moving my hand around in a fashion that I'm not comfortable with, and is certainly not optimal. Rear shifting is fine since I got the shims, there's a lot less movement required compared to the front.

This isn't a huge problem because the small chain ring (34) often correlates to riding on hoods, but I'd still be interested in fixing it some day, either with 105/ultegra if those are different, or even a shimergo set up since I've heard campy shifters fit small hands better, although I'd like more specifics on what that means as well.

THe old Campagnolo 10's are the most compact in the market together with campagnolo 11s

It's not really about SRAM KoolAid, I just want my riding to be more enjoyable, and if switching to a different group helps, then great. If Campy is better, I'd like to know that too, I'm just not as familiar with their lineup. I figured there might be other riders out there who have had a similar issue, and was curious if this was typical of the Tiagra shifters and if I'm missing some piece of knowledge that would make these shifters work better for me, I'd love to know.

Pushing the lever higher up really doesn't help me because then instead of just pushing over, I have to reach up and then also over from the drops, and there's not as much leverage closer to the pivot point, wrists and arms get angled all wonky, etc. which is why shifting on the hoods is not comfortable. I didn't know about the shims, I'll look into that.

I remember the 105 shifters taking a lot less effort, and feeling a lot less like they're made entirely of plastic. Again, I don't know if that's real, or in my head.

Sram shifters let you pull the paddle closer into the bar so you can get more torque when shifting.

Dug this back up again because I learned something new - I've been told Shimano has always had shorter throw shifters in the ST-R600, or so I've been told, which are 105ish level shifters. I've done some digging and only found info that they're shorter reach, but not much on the throw. Does anyone have experience with them? It was also mentioned that Shimano will be making 105 and up shifters with shorter throw in 2011. (IIRC, I was trying to absorb a lot of new information all at once.)

And no, I still haven't done anything about the shifters I have, I've just been living with it (and hating it) since the Mr. has a few purchases on his list that take priority.

one of the things i love about SRAM, compared to shimano, is the adjustable brake lever trim. via a screw in the lever you can set the distance of the brake lever from the bar, which in turn sets the shift paddle distance. combined with the shift paddle being able to track independently of the brake lever makes it feel really responsive and customizable to a wide variety of hand sizes.

The Campy finger lever pulls in too. There is also an easy way to reduce the reach to the brake lever. A little epoxy putty applied to the ergo body, right behind the quick release pin will prevent the brake lever from reaching it's full open position. I can reduce the reach by 10-15mm. The only practical limit is leaving enough travel to operate the brakes.

About SRAM's cable pull. It's not 1:1 and it has nothing to do with finger lever travel. The cable pull per shift is 3mm and that results in a 3.95mm movement of the RD.

Interesting tip on the epoxy, this is the same thing the shims do? My issue isn't with the reach of the brake levers though, its with how far the shift paddles have to be pushed to the side on Tiagra shifters.

Since I have a double front, is part of my issue because Tiagra is made to work with triples? I have more issues with the throw on the front shifts than the rear... This might be the same as Staarkhand's issues with the shifters too.

Yes, the epoxy does the same thing as the shims, but there's not place for shims with Campy levers.

Can't help you with the Tiagra problem. I'm a Campy-only guy. Even with short fingers, I've got no problem with Campy levers, but I never make the shift up to the big ring from the hooks either. Much easier from the hoods.

Yeah, it doesn't matter if I'm in the drops or on top, it's awkward either way, and requires rotating my hands all the way around, it's just worse in the drops. Going to the big ring is a really long throw, and going down to the short ring is a double "click" (which I'm learning is the shifter skipping the non-existent middle gear) and it's the second click that gets me. Similar issue for the back gears, it's just a little better.

As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't help that the Tiagra shifters are really clunky and imprecise and feel like they're made entirely of plastic. I know some people ride them for years and think they're fine, but IMHO they're crap. I don't understand why they would put this group on a women's specific bike. I would have paid $1-200 more for 105 or the ST-R600 shifters made for a double when I bought it.

I like pie.

SRAM is nicer for smaller hands. My experiences with Shimano are always tainted by the size they think human hands are. We don't all have piano hands. (Di2 was a nice fit though)

I still find that shifting to the big chainring is a bit of a reach, but less than it was with my shimano levers. With the SRAM levers you can move the lever in an arc, the way your finger wants to go. My shimano levers never behaved this way, presumably because it would activate the brakes if you did.

And for downshifts the sram levers are a very short throw.

Fwiw, my 10 speed Ultegra shifters will shift even if I push on them even very close to the pivot point. Would be great for those with small hands.

I have yet to try a SRAM system out, but everytime I hear someone say something like this, I want to swap my Shimano out immediately. This sounds like it would be perfect and gets rid of all the things I hate/find annoying about the way the shifting is now.

I have the Shimano ST-R600 levers on my bike. To me they are IDENTICAL to Ultegra levers of the same era except that the shims are already in place to reduce the brake throw as standard. The sideways throw to change gears is identical to the Tiagra levers. From that 9 speed era the Tigra, 105, Ultegra and R600 levers ALL had an IDENTICAL working mechanism. There were only changes to the body/mount but the working parts were all the same.

Now I have a confession to make. I can RANT for ages on the fit of bicycles for small people and I'm not particularly complementary of the RUBBISH that bike manufacturers foist on small riders. Your issue is likely to be somewhere else in the fit, namely you have been positioned too far forward in relation to the Bottom Bracket which places TOO much weight on your hands/shoulders which makes it VERY difficult to change gears/brake when your also trying to hold up your weight. Larger riders don't have so much weight proportionally on there hands/shoulders as small riders are forced to endure and since you have never experienced anything else you don't know anything else,

Here's me on my custom bike,

Lots of things to notice but take note of how far back I am sitting compared to most small riders.

Regards, Anthony

You only have one arm but you still cycle? Good for you.

Ha Ha, you cracked a funny!

Thats what I get for lining the camera up too well.

Anthony

The brake levers are too low in my opinion but i dont use shimano so who knows

I met this guy with one arm back in the day, he was able to sprint big time, use d/t shifters and stuff.

Alright, so that doesn't help either. Thanks for the info.

I'll double check the fit, but I *think* it's ok. I did get a fitting at the shop when I bought the bike. I've got slightly bent elbows, and don't put a lot of weight on my hands. I also don't get upper arm/shoulder/neck pain like I did on my last bike. The geometry on this bike is altogether more relaxed and more comfortable, it's just the &#*$@ing shifters.

So, I'm back to hunting ebay for a lightly used Rival group.

OK, Well I'm still thinking the problem is something other than the levers. Your hands CAN'T be smaller or weaker than mine (have a look at the pic) but I can change gears just fine. The handlebars would be the next thing I look at. If you have standard "ergo" handlebars with a flat section under the levers that you don't use then this is the next thing to change out for a classic curve bar or a modern "compact" bar with a curve of some sort throughout.

Anthony

I use the slightly angled part of the drop just below the shifters. (I have this bike if you want a reference, the only thing I've changed is the wheels.)
I made a few tiny fit adjustments on my ride tonight, I've got some other minor fit issues, like occasional numb bits and feet. I think my seat needs to be scootched forward and nose down just a teeny amount.

Anyway.
I'll keep working on it though to see if it helps.
I just did a side-by-side comparison (again) of the 105 shifters on the Mr.'s bike v. mine, and the throw is definitely less on the 105. (my handlebars are also definitely much more compact)