Nose tilted down, not level.

Try and find a photo of a bike saddle and discern a 1 degree slope from level. When people are talking about nose up or down they don't mean by an inch or two, they are talking one or two degrees at most. That is such a subtle change that no one's eyeball can see it in person let alone in a photo.

I use the clinometer app on my bikes. My MTB was nose down by 2 degrees and my road bike was nose down by 0.5 degrees. That was measured by sitting the iPod on a board on the saddle which itself has numerous slopes depending on where you look. The back of the saddle slopes towards the middle. The nose slope upward then finally leveling out.

Here is an example to give you an idea of how the slope of the saddle changes from front to back.

Probably the same people who came up with bike fitting based on plumb bobs, measuring tape, and lasers. Looks high tech and fancy but bike fit along with saddle fit has so many variables that using levels, plumb bobs, rulers and lasers along with mathematical formulas is actually an oversimplification. Fit has as much to do with mathematical formulas as your fitness level and muscle build.

Example: I ride the exact same bike I did two years ago. I was out of riding for an extended period of time due to an injury. the bike was set up for my previous level of fitness and the fit was dialed in perfectly. I have been riding for the past two weeks and cannot get comfortable. What was perfect two years ago is quite imperfect now. Same bike, same geometry, same saddle, same person, same weight..... different fitness level.

No mathematical formula or plumb bob can adequately determine the right fit. It may get you in the ball park and may be a good starting point, but it isn't the be all end all.

I use a iPhone with a level app thing. It's probably not accurate.

Actually, I just started eyeballing it. I level it, then tilt it back just a little bit.

I use a taint to measure saddle position.

Cushioning is a secondary function. It's meant primarily to wick sweat, not to pad your arse.

It's also to avoid seams. If the chamois was just under your sitbones, then you would have a seam somewhere around your taint or your junk. Also, and especially for guys, it's nice to have a little bit in front to obscure any obvious outlines...

Agreed, but whatever the reason, too much padding anywhere other than under the sitbones is only taking up the very space that the saddle manufacturers create by putting a cutout down the middle of the seat. A very thin pad under the crotch could "wick sweat," without filling up space and creating pressure. It's like the often-repeated caution to new cyclists looking for a more comfortable saddle. We all warn them that too much padding in the saddle causes pressure in soft areas of the body. And yet, the shorts manufacturers do the very same thing.

The problem is just the thickness of the padding, not necessarily the location. The padding in the locations that aren't being compressed aren't doing anything good or bad, but different people are going to hit the pads in different places. Anyway, the chamois in my shorts comes up the front a bit but they aren't really padded there per se.

Thank you! I thought I was the only one annoyed by that. I've noticed the same thing about my sitbones outside the padded area, and my sitbones aren't that wide (skinny guy with slim hips). It's enough to make me want to start my own shorts manufacturing company.

Now that I'm used to my Brooks, I may have to try the little or no padding idea too. Just a thin shammy is probably all I need.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. So when you're riding, you don't feel any testicular pressure from the pad in your shorts? What saddle and what shorts? I'm using PIs with the thinnest pad, and a Brooks Imperial. The pad is wider than the cutout, and it's about 3/8" thick right in the testicular area. Result: crowded testicles.

Maybe your shorts are just too tight? I have Voler Elite bibs and a Fizik Arione CX saddle...

i just tonight put a aliante saddle on my bike to try it on a ride tomorrow and i dont see how in the world you could level a saddle like this. the back of this seat flips up so high that if you put a level across this saddle from the high part of the nose to the end of the back of the saddle and adjusted it level it would look so nose up it isnt funny.

umd, do you have a side view of your arione angle?

Sounds like you need a narrower saddle

I'm with you.

Got mine new at K-Mart, but you can pick up a used one in decent shape at most thrift stores.

My hips aren't all that wide for a woman, and yet it is a challenge to find women's shorts with chamois that are wide enough in the back so that I am not sitting on the seam or not sitting on any sort of padding at all.

And I've ridden as much as 80 km with underwear and regular shorts or a bathing suit and regular shorts on my Brooks on tours. I was fine ... in fact, when touring Queensland in December 2004 when temps were regularly going into the high 30s /low 40s (that's around 100F), I preferred to ride in a bathing suit and beach shorts. My cycling shorts were just too hot and caused nasty rashes and hives all over my legs and butt. But the beach shorts allowed air to flow up my legs ... and that combination was great anytime we stopped at a beach for a cooling dip.

Exactly. It's silly. I dunno where it came from, but I vaguely remember reading about Indurain carrying his favourite saddle on planes with him, then checking it with a level when he put it back on his bike. 'Back in my day', the "rule" was to have the nose pointing up slightly

I thought a taint was the area between your ball sack and your butt hole. I didn't know you could buy a new one.

It's to relieve pressure on the taint...very important for saddles that have no perineal relief feature. It's about padding thickness differential in that area. Customer reps at PI and Spec confirmed this last year.

That said, I recently nosed up my saddle (Spec Avatar) and it's all good. Also switched to shorts with a thinner pad (also Spec). The PI's are retired.

It was a joke, as you will learn most of my posts are. After all, it's bicycling. We come here because we're bored at work, or there's nothing on TV, but subjects of real value are rarely discussed here....this thread being a perfect example.

Wait . . . an example of real value? Or of rarely being discussed?

ummm, yes