Downtube Shifters?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 520
Bikes: 2013 Specialized Allez, Iro Mark V
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Downtube Shifters?
Downtube vs. Integrated.
Whats advantages of each? While reading the component list of the Allez Double Steel, I read that the bike has "reliable" downtube shifters. Are they really more reliable than integrated (or brifters?- still a little lax on the roadie lingo).
I read in another post on bike forums via archives, that a disadvantage to DT shifters is that its harder to shift while still in motion, and harder to shift fluidly since you have to reach down and shift as opposed to keeping form and tapping a lever.
If you had a bike, such as the Allez double steel, that had DT Shifters, would you throw on Integrated shifters and use DT boss adapters for it?
Is integrated shifters "less reliable" since there are more moving parts to contend with (..thats an assumption. Sorry if im wrong).
Thanks for the help guys.
Whats advantages of each? While reading the component list of the Allez Double Steel, I read that the bike has "reliable" downtube shifters. Are they really more reliable than integrated (or brifters?- still a little lax on the roadie lingo).
I read in another post on bike forums via archives, that a disadvantage to DT shifters is that its harder to shift while still in motion, and harder to shift fluidly since you have to reach down and shift as opposed to keeping form and tapping a lever.
If you had a bike, such as the Allez double steel, that had DT Shifters, would you throw on Integrated shifters and use DT boss adapters for it?
Is integrated shifters "less reliable" since there are more moving parts to contend with (..thats an assumption. Sorry if im wrong).
Thanks for the help guys.
#2
Senior Member
Three advantages to downtube shifters: simple, light, and cheap.
There is one advantage to integrated shifters, but it's a doozy: they make shifting easier.
Disadvantages:
downtube - have to move your hand a long ways to shift. Hence you don't shift as often and thus are less efficient.
integrated - they are expensive. A little less reliable but not hugely, and definitely heavier than downtube.
There is one advantage to integrated shifters, but it's a doozy: they make shifting easier.
Disadvantages:
downtube - have to move your hand a long ways to shift. Hence you don't shift as often and thus are less efficient.
integrated - they are expensive. A little less reliable but not hugely, and definitely heavier than downtube.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 75
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock fixed gear, Cannondale CAAD 7 with Sram Force
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
They're more reliable because they are so much more simple; brifters have more mechanical parts than downtube shifters, so yes you could say they are "less reliable." However, if you properly maintain your shifters (brifter, downtube, bar-con, etc) they should last you just fine.
Personally, I love downtube shifters, but brifters are much easier to use and are more user-friendly. Downtube shifters are IMO more interesting and the learning curve (especially if they're indexed) is very minimal.
Of course you could upgrade to brifters and put cable stops on the dt braze-ons, but if you want brifters in the first place there are better options for what you want out there for similar money.
Personally, I love downtube shifters, but brifters are much easier to use and are more user-friendly. Downtube shifters are IMO more interesting and the learning curve (especially if they're indexed) is very minimal.
Of course you could upgrade to brifters and put cable stops on the dt braze-ons, but if you want brifters in the first place there are better options for what you want out there for similar money.
#4
I have a bike with each. Integrated shifters are better if you're an aggressive rider that races, or wants to race soon. If you're commuting or touring or something, DT shifters would make more sense since they are inexpensive and not prone to breaking or being damaged to the extent that integrated shifters are.
#6
on a road near you...
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Metro Boston, MA
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I like to think of DT shifts as "suicide shifters" since you have to take your hands (and sometimes eyes) off the bars (and road) in order to shift. Doesn't seem like a big deal until your drafting in a paceline going 25mph+, you reach down to shift, and the guy 2 inches off your wheel front wheel decides to sit up.
YMMV
YMMV
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 75
Bikes: Specialized Hardrock fixed gear, Cannondale CAAD 7 with Sram Force
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I like to think of DT shifts as "suicide shifters" since you have to take your hands (and sometimes eyes) off the bars (and road) in order to shift. Doesn't seem like a big deal until your drafting in a paceline going 25mph+, you reach down to shift, and the guy 2 inches off your wheel front wheel decides to sit up.
YMMV
YMMV
#8
Live to ride ride to live
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 4,896
Bikes: Calfee Tetra Pro
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I think brifters are one of the best advancements in cycling. I would not go back to DT shifters. I still have a bike with un-indexted DT shifters but I longer ride it. To me, brifters and clipless pedals have changed cycling for the better.
Last edited by Carbon Unit; 09-21-10 at 10:23 AM.
#9
steel lover
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,316
Bikes: Bianchi Alloro, Miyata 710, Fuji Espree Fixie convert
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I like DT shifters... but I don't race. I do ride fast, often pace-line, and ride in the fast group rides.
I ride a 51cm bike, so it's not a far reach for me, and I have learned to shift well... my fingers do the indexing for me (shifters are friction). If I put my hand on my top tube I can use my middle finger to flick through the gears as a accelerate.
If I were doing crits, yeah, brifters for sure. I mean, you can't shift while in a standing sprint with DT shifters. Climbing hills might require a LITTLE more forethought also. But just road riding, it's whatever you are comfy on. Some people don't like taking a hand off the bars. I have ZERO problem riding one or no handed.
I do ride clipless though
I ride a 51cm bike, so it's not a far reach for me, and I have learned to shift well... my fingers do the indexing for me (shifters are friction). If I put my hand on my top tube I can use my middle finger to flick through the gears as a accelerate.
If I were doing crits, yeah, brifters for sure. I mean, you can't shift while in a standing sprint with DT shifters. Climbing hills might require a LITTLE more forethought also. But just road riding, it's whatever you are comfy on. Some people don't like taking a hand off the bars. I have ZERO problem riding one or no handed.
I do ride clipless though
![Big Grin](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#10
Banned.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 732
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
if you are just riding for fun and fitness and want a pretty nice bike at a low cost, that Allez steel is a very nice bike that has caught a lot of peoples eyes. Down the road you could certainly upgrade it to brifters. It's pretty much as everyone here has said, downtube shifters are cheap and durable. The only thing that nobody mentioned that is also nice is if you are running them in friction mode instead of indexed you can trim downtube shifters perfectly so no chain rattling around rubbing against the fd and fewer periodic deraileur adjustments.
#12
Cat 4 roadkill
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I love 'em, and if it weren't for racing, I'd never buy brifters again. $80 or so for DA 7900 down tube shifters (plus whatever brake levers) vs. $500 or so for the STI's means more room in the budget for wheels. Hell, I have a friend who races (or really, dabbles in cat 5 racing) with DT shifters.
I also race cross with downtube shifters, but I won't tell you it's ideal, or even a good idea.
The cool thing about them is that once you develop the muscle memory to reach for them (takes maybe a week), you don't have to look down at all to see where you are on the cassette; you'll be able to tell by feel.
I also race cross with downtube shifters, but I won't tell you it's ideal, or even a good idea.
The cool thing about them is that once you develop the muscle memory to reach for them (takes maybe a week), you don't have to look down at all to see where you are on the cassette; you'll be able to tell by feel.
#13
Portland Fred
I have a bike with each. Integrated shifters are better if you're an aggressive rider that races, or wants to race soon. If you're commuting or touring or something, DT shifters would make more sense since they are inexpensive and not prone to breaking or being damaged to the extent that integrated shifters are.
#14
Cat 4 roadkill
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I like brifters even for the commuter because you can shift more often, and they work particularly well when standing. As far as reliability goes, of course they can't match DT, but you can abuse them and they'll still give years of service. I've never had one fail to last at least 25K miles, and I'm hard on equipment.
I don't think the "shifting more often" argument holds water. It's more habit than anything else, once you get past the not-so-steep learning curve with DT's. If you're used to STI's and shifting every 10 pedal strokes, you're likely to do the same with DT's. Riding one or the other exclusively will change your habits over time, of course, but I frequently ride both in the same day (commute on the aforementioned DT-equipped CX bike, then go home and jump on the road bike), and I shift about the same on either. Only difference is I find myself reaching down to shift if I'm tooling along at commute speeds on my road bike.
![Smilie](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#15
Live to ride ride to live
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 4,896
Bikes: Calfee Tetra Pro
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I love 'em, and if it weren't for racing, I'd never buy brifters again. $80 or so for DA 7900 down tube shifters (plus whatever brake levers) vs. $500 or so for the STI's means more room in the budget for wheels. Hell, I have a friend who races (or really, dabbles in cat 5 racing) with DT shifters.
I also race cross with downtube shifters, but I won't tell you it's ideal, or even a good idea.
The cool thing about them is that once you develop the muscle memory to reach for them (takes maybe a week), you don't have to look down at all to see where you are on the cassette; you'll be able to tell by feel.
I also race cross with downtube shifters, but I won't tell you it's ideal, or even a good idea.
The cool thing about them is that once you develop the muscle memory to reach for them (takes maybe a week), you don't have to look down at all to see where you are on the cassette; you'll be able to tell by feel.
#16
Portland Fred
However, even with HID lighting, I hit a heck of a lot of debris (some of which is quite large) when riding in the winter, so I see keeping my hands on the bars as safety issue, though not a major one. And shifting while standing is definitely way better with brifters.
One advantage of DT not mentioned yet is if you ever intend to lock your bike to a rack, you're a bit less of a target.
#17
Should Be More Popular
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,467
Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix
Liked 9,402 Times
in
4,345 Posts
I wonder what people would think if the "original" shifters were integrated and then recently someone invented DT shifters.
FWIW I have one bike with DT shifters and one with brifters. Each shifter type has its relative strengths and weaknesses.
I really don't think I buy that brifters are "safer" since you keep your hands on the bar. Maybe, but in decades of using DT shifters I have never had a problem. The main thing is to keep one hand on the bar with thumb butted up near the stem and make sure fingers are hooked around the bars, that way an unexpected bump will not cause problems.
FWIW I have one bike with DT shifters and one with brifters. Each shifter type has its relative strengths and weaknesses.
I really don't think I buy that brifters are "safer" since you keep your hands on the bar. Maybe, but in decades of using DT shifters I have never had a problem. The main thing is to keep one hand on the bar with thumb butted up near the stem and make sure fingers are hooked around the bars, that way an unexpected bump will not cause problems.
#18
Senior Member
Unless you are racing at a high level, it makes very little difference.
It is just what you get use to. Once you learn how to use DT's they become second nature.
Brifters to me have become the norm, but DT's work just as well. At times better.
It is just what you get use to. Once you learn how to use DT's they become second nature.
Brifters to me have become the norm, but DT's work just as well. At times better.
#19
Cat 4 roadkill
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#21
Cat 4 roadkill
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
To answer your question, though, your implication is correct. Racing at the lower categories is sketchy enough without everyone reaching down to shift. That said, they're still legal, and there are a few guys who show up with them and don't have problems. I wouldn't want to multiply that by the entire pack, though.
The only real performance disadvantage other than the sketch factor is that you have to pick your shifts a bit in advance; you can't shift standing up or while doing active bike-handling.
#22
Headset-press carrier
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Corrales New Mexico
Posts: 2,137
Bikes: Kona with Campy 8, Lynskey Ti with Rival, Bianchi pista, Raleigh Team Frame with SRAM Red, Specialized Stump Jumper, Surley Big Dummy
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The Tuesday Crits still has guys riding DT and do well. MY steelie equipped with campagnolo ergo 8 speed has not needed a rebuild since I owned 1999. I started using it less using it last year and even in my not so much cycling years I rode to work not less than 80 miles a week, so it has 30K plus miles if I just count commuting miles. A upper Cat racer owned it before me and used it a lot before for almost 2 years and I do not think he rebuilt it either. So brifters can last a while as well.
Oh BTW I like them. I even like the friction shifters type. the non indexed.
Oh BTW I like them. I even like the friction shifters type. the non indexed.
#23
Portland Fred
#24
Senior Member
What makes you think you can't shift DT's over anything?
Besides you have never/rarely used them.