Originally Posted by patentcad (Post 11579112)

It's just entertainment. It has about as much relevance to our daily riding and routine as Tea Party Witchcraft.

Originally Posted by tuxbailey (Post 11579164)

Correct. I forgot how much entertainment value this kind of stuff add to BF :)

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 11579184)

incorrect

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 11579245)

ummm

if the euro pros are doing it
what do you suppose the domestic pros who want to go to the show are doing?
the cat 1s looking for a pro deal?
the cat1 hot shot/ex pro masters?
2s looking to get to the next level?
jon chodroff as a 3?

once the playing field tilts all bets are off.

Originally Posted by patentcad (Post 11579112)

It's just entertainment. It has about as much relevance to our daily riding and routine as Tea Party Witchcraft.

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 11579245)

ummm

if the euro pros are doing it
what do you suppose the domestic pros who want to go to the show are doing?
the cat 1s looking for a pro deal?
the cat1 hot shot/ex pro masters?
2s looking to get to the next level?
jon chodroff as a 3?

once the playing field tilts all bets are off.

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh (Post 11579364)

Playing this out further,

It's very easy for Masters racers to dope with Testosterone, and HGH, (and perhaps other things) with legal prescriptions.

With no testing, the only deterrent to such use is personal ethics, potential health concerns, and cost.

So does a culture of doping starting at the top professional level, and trickling down, errode the sense that it's ethically wrong to dope, and make it more likely the guy next to you in the Masters 45 race is using PED's?

Originally Posted by Homebrew01 (Post 11579673)

And since there's virtually no testing in lower categories, wealthy, connected masters (and anyone else) can get away with it a lot more easily than the pros.

Originally Posted by SBRDude (Post 11579152)

Let's assume for a moment that Contador is totally clean and that this was all just a big accident. Let's also assume that Astana has been working very hard to ensure that their team is squeaky clean and beyond reproach. Moreover, let's also assume that all the other teams in the TdF have been making a serious and honest effort to be clean. Finally, let's assume they have all been on this clean campaign for the last few years. Remember, that is the official policy that everyone of those teams and riders likes to state.

Now, if there really is this much institutionalized honesty and accountability, shouldn't people be coming out of the woodwork to assert that AC doesn't use PEDs? I would expect teammates, past and present, to emphatically support him in the media. Same thing for team directors and anyone else with recent experience in the TdF. We should hear stories by people on other teams - people with no direct stake in AC - vouching for his character, explaining how they keep their own teams clean and how they know that Astana does the same thing, etc. In short, I would expect to see more outrage and frustration by those who know and believe the sport and AC to be clean. I mean, wouldn't you at least expect Armstrong to say that even though he never really got along with AC on a personal level, that he still respects him as a rider and always knew him to be clean?

Instead, it seems like people don't want to invite any attention on themselves. I know this proves nothing, but to me it just seems like a situation like in a crappy neighborhood with a lot of violence and when the cops show up, no one wants to get involved.

Originally Posted by SBRDude (Post 11579152)

Let's assume for a moment that Contador is totally clean and that this was all just a big accident. Let's also assume that Astana has been working very hard to ensure that their team is squeaky clean and beyond reproach. Moreover, let's also assume that all the other teams in the TdF have been making a serious and honest effort to be clean. Finally, let's assume they have all been on this clean campaign for the last few years. Remember, that is the official policy that everyone of those teams and riders likes to state.

Now, if there really is this much institutionalized honesty and accountability, shouldn't people be coming out of the woodwork to assert that AC doesn't use PEDs? I would expect teammates, past and present, to emphatically support him in the media. Same thing for team directors and anyone else with recent experience in the TdF. We should hear stories by people on other teams - people with no direct stake in AC - vouching for his character, explaining how they keep their own teams clean and how they know that Astana does the same thing, etc. In short, I would expect to see more outrage and frustration by those who know and believe the sport and AC to be clean. I mean, wouldn't you at least expect Armstrong to say that even though he never really got along with AC on a personal level, that he still respects him as a rider and always knew him to be clean?

Instead, it seems like people don't want to invite any attention on themselves. I know this proves nothing, but to me it just seems like a situation like in a crappy neighborhood with a lot of violence and when the cops show up, no one wants to get involved.

Originally Posted by StephenH (Post 11580276)

The flip side of that is that if you are going to dope in whatever way, it would be very prudent to make sure that as few people as possible were aware of it or ever saw it happen, so you didn't have too many potential Landises floating around out there. But that same attitude would also make it hard to say whether anyone did or didn't dope if you weren't involved directly in it.

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 11579245)

ummm

if the euro pros are doing it
what do you suppose the domestic pros who want to go to the show are doing?
the cat 1s looking for a pro deal?
the cat1 hot shot/ex pro masters?
2s looking to get to the next level?
jon chodroff as a 3?

once the playing field tilts all bets are off.

Originally Posted by stevegor (Post 11572159)

Even in my little backwoods Aussie town we have former elite riders that raced in the 70-90s that doped and are now having life threatening health problems because of it.

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh (Post 11579711)

The anti aging clinics advertise on the radio all the time down here. I'm pretty sure they'll diagnose you with "low T" and give you prescription for Testosterone, and HGH on request.

EPO might take a little more work.

I've asked my wife to write it for me, but she's refused.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by nanan (Post 11581156)

A doc that I goes to my gym said if I ever felt the need to seek out "anti-aging" medication that he would be more then happy to prescribe HGH or Test. He said they also give prescriptions for HGH as a weight loss drug because the primary long term side effect is body fat depletion.

Originally Posted by rkelley23 (Post 11573801)

In what way is "You can call me Al" obscure?

Originally Posted by RUOkie (Post 11573891)

But it is of consequence. These products have trickled down into our colleges, high schools and now even our middle schools with kids who are not skeletally mature taking drugs to allow them to compete on a level playing field with their peers. If we allow sports to degenerate into Professional "Wrestling" where PEDs are the norm, our children will suffer.

Originally Posted by RUOkie (Post 11581264)

Any doctor who discusses prescriptions for hGH and testosterone in a gym deserves what he has coming to him. An investigation by the DEA, and possible loss of license. There are certainly lots of docs who do this, but they are setting themselves up for prosecution just like the recipients are.

Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 11579245)

ummm

if the euro pros are doing it
what do you suppose the domestic pros who want to go to the show are doing?
the cat 1s looking for a pro deal?
the cat1 hot shot/ex pro masters?
2s looking to get to the next level?
jon chodroff as a 3?

once the playing field tilts all bets are off.

Originally Posted by surgeonstone (Post 11582564)

Oh...I see... so by vigorous antidoping protocols we shall have drug free high schools and middle schools? I feel so relieved.

Originally Posted by save10 (Post 11585124)

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...lastics_145229

sorry if already posted. Here is a really good article on stuff related to 'the problem'

Originally Posted by alexp247365 (Post 11582991)

Not enough collateral damage at the top for a positive test IMO. Raise the limits of what is ok to be in the athlete's system so false positives are almost impossible, but at the same time, any positive test above the limits results in a lifetime ban of anyone associated with the team from the sport of cycling.

Originally Posted by nanan (Post 11585613)

I was a bit shocked how open he was about it and even confused as I know there are quite a few law enforcement people who go to this gym.

Originally Posted by nanan (Post 11585613)

I was a bit shocked how open he was about it and even confused as I know there are quite a few law enforcement people who go to this gym.

Originally Posted by achoo (Post 11585657)

Who do you think he's selling to?

Let's put it this way: steroid and other PED use among LEOs is not unheard of...

Originally Posted by RUOkie (Post 11585698)

here in rural OK, we had a gym owner who went to jail for drugs, and the gym was seized by RICO. He had multiple forms of steroids, HGH, xanax, extacy, and some others. He also had relations with a doctor whom he would "refer patients to" for PEDs. When he was deposed, he gave up his client list which included a bunch of HS football, track, and baseball players (boys and girls)who's names were sealed, some regular gym rats, and a bunch of local cops.