|
I read the article and sat back amazed. The information was obtained from an individual who insisted on being anonomous because he/she is violating a confidentiality agreement. The test data was obtained using an unvalidated method that scientists assure everyone is very accurate, i.e. "Trust me it works". Then the article goes on to disclose an interview with a professed doper who states the existing "validated" :rolleyes: method failed to detect substances almost all the time.
Is there anyone else in the medical device, pharmacetical, biotech industry reading this and can't help but wonder what clown is running the testing lab and how does the organizing body get away with these sort of standards. I don't like Contador, and he may be guilty, but this thing reads (to me) like someone on the inside is trying their best to destroy cycling and or the TDF for whatever reason. This situation is really sad. |
Originally Posted by roccobike
(Post 11577093)
I read the article and sat back amazed. The information was obtained from an individual who insisted on being anonomous because he/she is violating a confidentiality agreement. The test data was obtained using an unvalidated method that scientists assure everyone is very accurate, i.e. "Trust me it works". Then the article goes on to disclose an interview with a professed doper who states the existing "validated" :rolleyes: method failed to detect substances almost all the time.
Is there anyone else in the medical device, pharmacetical, biotech industry reading this and can't help but wonder what clown is running the testing lab and how does the organizing body get away with these sort of standards. I don't like Contador, and he may be guilty, but this thing reads (to me) like someone on the inside is trying their best to destroy cycling and or the TDF for whatever reason. This situation is really sad. They're not, however. He's going to get sanctioned on the Clenbuterol test, which is validated. The whole plastecizer bit comes in, as the rebuttal to the "tainted meat theory" Then the finder of fact is going to have evaluate the plausability of the tainted meat theory, and the evidence of blood doping, i.e. th epastercizer finding, albeit not yet rolled out for sanctioning in its own right, is definitely probative evidnece on that issue. |
We've been kicking this around for close to a week now. And we can continue to guess and speculate.
But bottom line, with the information that'sbeen revealed to date, how friggin hard is it to believe that that Contador, like a littany of riders before him, used PED's? If it were not for the fact that the Spanish authorities have jurisdiction over this, and a history of home cooking from them, I'd bet the farm he's going down. |
Merlin, He skated from Operation Puerto by being "protected" by his corrupt government, but not this time .... The French are involved and they don't like to let go (once it's public that is :() He's going to get hit hard IMO. How do you like his guilty bluff ... "If you penalize me I will quit." Oy!
Rocco, my company had an FDA approved laboratory and I'm a chemical engineer undergrad. We did a lot of phthalate testing and it's a damn sensitive and accurate testing procedure. The only reservation is proving that it came from IV bags. It certainly sounds reasonable but I've never seen a study (but never looked either) on it specifically in regards to blood transfusions. |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 11573678)
Rationalizing cheating to gain unfair advantage is more Republican than Socialist.
|
Originally Posted by Homebrew01
(Post 11573357)
Maybe a 2 year ban isn't harsh enough.
A ban for life, a forefiure of all winnings and a very, very heavy fine on the team**********? |
Originally Posted by smithsb
(Post 11577077)
I don't see what the big deal is. If they just ditch the plastic IV bags and start using glass bottles, everyone is golden again. Right?
Hey, PM me your resume, Astana is looking for a new Team Director. |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 11577585)
Hey, PM me your resume, Astana is looking for a new Team Director.
|
...and it's been 5 days since Lemond had a say. (I didn't read the whole thread so maybe someone posted it) :( I wonder how badly this will go for Contador?!?
|
PCad is totally correct on Republicans vs Socialists.. In the 70s, West German female swimmers dominated the Os, not East German female swimmers. Oops. I got that backwards. Okay, East Germany was run by Republicans.
|
Originally Posted by tagaproject6
(Post 11578095)
...and it's been 5 days since Lemond had a say. (I didn't read the whole thread so maybe someone posted it) :( I wonder how badly this will go for Contador?!?
|
F all P&R content being injected into non P&R thread topics, and F all those who bring P&R content into non P&R threads.
|
Originally Posted by umd
(Post 11576547)
It means you stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not an issue...
|
Originally Posted by smithsb
(Post 11578033)
Latin hexameters.
|
Originally Posted by ColorChange
(Post 11577358)
Merlin, He skated from Operation Puerto by being "protected" by his corrupt government, but not this time .... The French are involved and they don't like to let go (once it's public that is :() He's going to get hit hard IMO. How do you like his guilty bluff ... "If you penalize me I will quit." Oy!
... |
Originally Posted by RecceDG
(Post 11575284)
Pretty much.
It's clear that not so very long ago, it was possible to beat the testers. You could dope with near-impunity, and the catches were (in relation to the numbers) few and far between. But now, I think all the evidence is that the testers are ahead of the dopers. The tests are orders of magnitude more sensitive. Tests are more frequent (for some, to the point of near ridiculousness) and they can test for far more things than they once could. Plus samples are being banked. It is now possible - even likely - that samples can and will be tested retroactively when new tests or more sensitive tests are developed. You might maybe still get away with it for a little while, but one tiny slip and the Eye of Sauron will be on you full-force. They will go through your body fluids with the finest of fine tooth combs and whatever is there, they will find it. And once that is done... you're finished. Over. I get it for a domestique. They're disposable; their whole job description is to sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the team's GC contender. Plus, they are probably never going to be contenders in their own right, by which I mean they lack whatever physical or mental spark it is that identifies a contender. They have greater need for chemical assistance, they are more desperate to keep a slot on the team, and if they get busted, it can be denied as a "rogue element" rather than team policy. Plus they just aren't as important as individuals, so they aren't going to get the same level of scrutiny. I can understand why these guys dope. But a modern GC contender? The risks are SO high, the rewards SO low, that I'm astounded that any of these guys would run the risk of being caught. Contador is now ruined forever and all his past successes are now suspect. His future earnings potential is GONE. Look at the people willing to throw rocks at Armstrong - who never failed a doping test. What will Contador's legacy be now? DG |
It's pretty clear that pro cycling remains a morally corrupt sport that is unworthy of the support honest people. Think about what you are doing when you buy or recommend products that are marketed via pro cycling. Until the buying public makes a forceful statement that affects the pocketbooks of everybody involved in the sport, doping = winning.
|
Originally Posted by achoo
(Post 11578356)
I didn't see that. Did Contador REALLY pull that stunt? Why does he think they want him around anymore? I can imagine the backroom conversations, "Yeah, I know there's an outside chance he might not really be guilty. But he said he'd quit forever if we penalized him, so LET'S PENALIZE HIM! NOW! What are we waiting for! We'll be rid of him!"
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...-doping_144526 |
Originally Posted by KiddSisko
(Post 11578174)
F all P&R content being injected into non P&R thread topics, and F all those who bring P&R content into non P&R threads.
Man I hate liberals. Oops. |
Originally Posted by ColorChange
(Post 11578503)
+1
Man I hate liberals. Oops. |
Originally Posted by KiddSisko
(Post 11578174)
F all P&R content being injected into non P&R thread topics, and F all those who bring P&R content into non P&R threads.
OK, almost everyone here. |
Let's burn some witches, and start with that Tea Party moron in Delaware.
|
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 11578854)
Let's burn some witches, and start with that Tea Party moron in Delaware.
|
Originally Posted by sced
(Post 11578434)
It's pretty clear that pro cycling remains as morally corrupt as any major sport, that is there are those who will do anything to win, and those who feel they must do things to keep their opportunity in that sport.
In all seriousness, the backup plan for most of these guys if they get fired is to do what? Some of them get jobs in the cycling industry, but most of them (the europeans especially) started cycling as a more or less full time job too early to have developed many other marketable skills. So if Joe Smith has been riding for a few years, met a nice girl, had a kid or two, then has a bad season and is in danger of not getting another contract (and, by extension, maybe not having any income for his family) what do you think he does? Best case, he performs better and makes more money. Worst case he gets popped and is out of cycling, probably a little later than he would've been otherwise. Big deal, he was going to be out of cycling if he didn't dope, at least he took a shot. Then you have the riders who don't feel like they can compete against the walking pharmacies without doping. And the people who will do anything to win. And the cyclists who were pressured by everyone on the team and the DS when they were 18 19 20 year old kids to dope. I don't condone doping, but I can understand why it happens in a lot of cases. And I agree that the solution has to involve sanctioning the people involved in the teams rather than just the riders so that all (most) of the people who benefit from a rider doping share the penalty, rather than throwing the rider out on the street. |
So this talk of doping in the cat 4 and above, so our elite BF road members *cat 3 and above" could be doping then. Where do we sign up?
From VeloNews Leo Masursky The fact is Contador was blood doping during the Tour just like all of his main competitors were, and he was doping (maybe by spraying his meat with clen) on the off season. The other fact is everyone knows this is true, and that doping is ubiquitous in competitive cycling above cat 4 (U.S.). |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 11578852)
In order to completely extract P&R from general discourse, you might have to give everyone here a lobotomy.
OK, almost everyone here. |
Folks, just don't be emotionally involved in watching Pro races. Treat it like NFL and it is all good. Just watch it for the cool bikes, nice wheels and podium girls...
|
Originally Posted by tuxbailey
(Post 11579090)
Folks, just don't be emotionally involved in watching Pro races. Treat it like NFL and it is all good. Just watch it for the cool bikes, nice wheels and podium girls...
|
Let's assume for a moment that Contador is totally clean and that this was all just a big accident. Let's also assume that Astana has been working very hard to ensure that their team is squeaky clean and beyond reproach. Moreover, let's also assume that all the other teams in the TdF have been making a serious and honest effort to be clean. Finally, let's assume they have all been on this clean campaign for the last few years. Remember, that is the official policy that everyone of those teams and riders likes to state.
Now, if there really is this much institutionalized honesty and accountability, shouldn't people be coming out of the woodwork to assert that AC doesn't use PEDs? I would expect teammates, past and present, to emphatically support him in the media. Same thing for team directors and anyone else with recent experience in the TdF. We should hear stories by people on other teams - people with no direct stake in AC - vouching for his character, explaining how they keep their own teams clean and how they know that Astana does the same thing, etc. In short, I would expect to see more outrage and frustration by those who know and believe the sport and AC to be clean. I mean, wouldn't you at least expect Armstrong to say that even though he never really got along with AC on a personal level, that he still respects him as a rider and always knew him to be clean? Instead, it seems like people don't want to invite any attention on themselves. I know this proves nothing, but to me it just seems like a situation like in a crappy neighborhood with a lot of violence and when the cops show up, no one wants to get involved. |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 11579112)
It's just entertainment. It has about as much relevance to our daily riding and routine as Tea Party Witchcraft.
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:03 PM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.