It's the shifter that has zero-loss, it doesn't matter what derailleur you use. So I think the recommendation should be for Red shifters and whatever derailleurs you can afford.

SRAM's not very good. I'm at 9000 mi now. I've had adjust the barrel cable tension adjusters twice just to keep it in tune. What kind of crap is that?

In contrast, I test-rode a DA (7800), paying $35 for a demo-ride, and on the rear-shifts, I had to double-down-shift and upshift-one to get a single-cog downshift in the middle cogs. That was waay better, than this crappy Red I bought, because I prefer riding stuff that comes out of adjustment easily, and somebody charges me to give me a learning experience.

This post right here is the reason I'm going SRAM on my next bike. I hate the way my 105 is constantly out of adjustment, and those stupid double shifts it takes half the time to just go one gear. Freaking annoying to say the least.

I'm 90% sure I'm going with Force. Ribble has a good price on the group set but I may sell the shifters and then buy some Red shifters. I no nothing about how the Zero Loss works, but it sounds good.

Also my current wheels are Campy Eurus. Great wheels, perhaps the best I've ever had so I don't want to get rid of them. How hard is it to convert to SRAM and where can I source the free hub. Cost?

Uhmmmm there are an extensive number of threads on dead and/or dying STI shifters just check the mechanics forums.... I myself own a pair (now repaired, 6501's), repaired someone elses Dura Ace STI. And have had numerous other people donate dead STI levers to me. Trust me they wear out I actually have pictures to prove it (Sadly there are no other references to a non worn out shifter for comparison shots but trust me when I say they end up grinding their insides up)

6501s are worn out? How old ARE those? Ten years? Older?

Older than any existing SRAM road shifter.

beautiful frame.
what problems did you have with campy - it's been bullet proof for me. I also have DA 9spd but will replace with campy. I have a lot of friends that ride sram and they speak highly of it (note: they all have red)

I own both 2010 Force and Ultegra 6700. They came stock on the bikes I bought. Ultegra front derailleur shifts are sublime, a revelation. Nothing comes close. Rear shifts are quiet and smooth and the overall feel of Ultegra is solid. The hoods are little large and I have big hands but the ergonomics are WAY better than my 7800 Dura Ace.

Force is lighter and I like the ergonomics of the hoods better than Ultegra. Shifts are precise and quick but it doesn't feel as solid as Ultegre. HOWEVER, if I were building a frame up myself, I'd put Force on it.

Like someone else said above, you can save $ by getting Sram Rival shifters and brakes but get Force Crank and Derailleurs and you wouldn't know the difference. it all boils down to preference and mainly the erognomics of the hoods as this is where you spend most of your time.

Best post thus far...^^^^^

This again!? Really?

Chorus 11, I was constantly adjusting it to get the shifts right. Twice this past summer I took it in for RD adjustments, once for cable replacements. I always start the season (spring time) with new cables and chain anyway so when the shops say I need new cables I'm like WTF. There was always one or two cogs on the cassette that would not up'shift or down shift correctly. I would have to go down 2 then up one.

It would stay tuned for 5 or 6 hundred miles then would need adjustment. Before 11's I had Record 10 and never had a problem, before Record 10 I had Ultegra/DA mix on another bike and never ever needed adjustment. I don't know why this is happening but what I do know is that it gets annoying with the mis-shifts and all.

This ^^^^

Exact same reason I switched from 105 to Force. 105 was seriously a nightmare.

Force...I am setting up my 3 SRAM bike... was a Campy fan for years... will say the newer Shimano is looking better though I still don't like moving the brake lever to shift.

I recommend Red shifters because of the Zero Loss on the right shifter.

The Red FD is flexy and not as good as the Force/Rival FD, which are the same except for the finish. Rival/Force FD are the same weight.

Force cranks because you get the BB30 option and you also get some decent weight savings over Rival cranks. Red cranks are just too expensive.

The Force RD is good because it saves a bit of weight for just a bit more than a Rival RD. A Red RD save even more weight, but it costly. And don't get fooled by the ceramic bearings that Red has, they don't do that much.

KMC chain because a lot of people recommend it. I've heard it's a good chain for the price. You don't have to get the SL chain, but it adds a bit of bling and saves weight.

Red cassette because of the weight savings. You could go with a DA cassette.

I recommend the Planet X brakes because they cost about the same as Force brakes, but are much lighter. I've heard good things about them and if you're worried about stopping power, get some Kool Stops.

I like both but I'm a SRAM fan of late. Not sure how Red got in the discussion but if you can save up get it. GL

Define "better" please.

shifting ergo aside, the main flaw of the ultegra is too glaring.

what's with the new ultegra not being able to do 3 gears in 1 sweep?

2010 Force with Red chainrings.

I'm so happy I've found other people in this. Everyone I know seems to think 105 is fine, but ever since I've had this bike with 105 it's been a disaster. I seriously cannot wait for a new ride w/ sram components, all because of the horrible experience I've had with this bike w/ 105.

I assume you meant shifter ergo. Two gear sweep vs. three gears? Okay, though it hasn't made much of a difference to me at all. Actually, both of the benefits you cite are subjective enough that all you can say is it's better for you. Not objectively better.

Well performance is arguably the same along with durability and reliability.
Force is lighter than Ultegra 6700 AND cheaper, which is why it's "better."
I'd say Rival should be compared to Ultegra 6700 because it performs just as well as Force, and is also lighter than Ultegra. The best part is that it is even more cheaper than Ultegra.

However, does that mean Force is going to make you faster? The simple answer is no.
If you're deciding on these groupsets, which all perform perfectly fine, you should make the decision based on personal preference. Some people may prefer double-tap and feel of the SRAM levers. Others may prefer Shimano's levers and the smoothness of the shifts. Just go with whichever you like more because from a performance standpoint, they're the same.

just for fun let's link objectivity with something being quantifiable.

3 gears to 2 gears sweep is objectively better for anyone. quantifiable. in shimano terms: regression.

force way lighter than ultegra is objectively better for anyone. quantifiable. in shimano terms: on par with rival weight.

shifter ergo is subjective. some like it hot, some like it not.

Critical reasoning fail.

By your measure of better then, Campy 11 is better than SRAM or Shimano 10. Funny too, that lighter, in and of itself, is seldom seen as objectively better when comparing frames. Why so with components, or specifically groupsets? Removing application as a consideration (terrain, racing vs. recreation) is bad practice.

You're feeding the trolls.

Force IS around 1/2 pound lighter. You can't ignore that. That's a big difference -- the same as 4 oz. of water in your 24 oz. water bottle. Oops, not so much, I guess.

Force is sometimes cheaper, sometimes not.

But Force also gives up quite a bit in crank stiffness. If you're very light, it's not an issue. If you use your bike primarily for casual rides, it's certainly not a big deal. If you're a big boy or if you put down a lot of power, those beautiful Force chainrings will flex long before the ugly (IMO) Ultegra rings do.

I like the look of Force alot more than the look of Ultegra. My hands tend to go numb on Force hoods (and Di2 hoods, too, for that matter), whereas the larger surface area of the Ultegra hoods is more comfortable for me on long hauls.

Front shifting belongs to Ultegra 6700. Braking belongs to Ultegra 6700. All other performance issues are not measurably different.

But Force has a cooler vibe, IMO. And Contador and Lance ride SRAM (but not Force, except the front derailleur), so . . .

Don't know about you folks but I spend more time in the hoods then I do shifting gears so I give a lot of weight to the comfort of the hoods. For me that's Shimano.

I replaced my Ultegra with Force (all except cranks) and made the leap back after about 600 miles.

I didn't get on with the shape of the hoods, the tap tap wasn't intuitive and the noise drove me crazy - but hey it all looked cool and I was saving ounces I tell ya.

Yep. Have a CAAD9-5, came with 105 everything. Swapped the shifters and RD for Force and never looked back. Best decision ever. I just sold my old 105 shifters on ebay, at least I got something out of them other than frustration.

If you're going to make a bike with a frankengroup, why not go with Shimano 105 or ultegra brakes? In my experience on numerous test rides, nothing stops as well as Shimano brakes.

Lol.

WHICH 105 have you personally had trouble with, Creatre? 5600? That one model of 105 has a bad reputaton. All that came before and 5700, which came since, have very positive reputations.

And besides . . . what does that have to do with Ultegra?