I'm helping a friend buy his first road bike and because he's old (like me), a more upright riding position is preferable.

It's pretty clear that the Specialized Roubaix, Cannondale Synapse and the Giant Defy fall into this category.

Of the remaining major brands (i.e. Trek, Felt, Fuji, Orbea, etc.), what are their comparable upright carbon frame bike lines? Unfortunately, I can't tell from websites and there's not way I can figure it out from the geometry specs.

BTW, the leading candidate is the 2011 Giant Defy Advanced 3. Carbon frame with 105 for $1879. Seem like a fairly reasonable deal. Your thoughts?

Thanks,

Cliff

Trek used to have the Pilot Series, but I don't know if they're still made. Also, many of the racier bikes(Tarmac, Caad-Series, etc) can be set up to give a more upright riding style.

R-series from Cervelo.

Felt:
https://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2011/Road/Z-Series.aspx

Specialized:
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/....jsp?scid=1001
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...nuItemId=15154

Look 566
https://www.lookcycle.com/en/us/route/velos.html

You should be able to compare the head tube lengths and work out which ones have a more relaxed geometry from there. For instance - comparing two bikes with equal horizontal top tubes (HTT)... if one has a taller head tube (HT), that's the one with the more relaxed geometry. (Seat tube and head tube angles come into it, but the above is a good rule of thumb for starters.) The Defy is a nice bike for a first road bike... btw.

I spent this past Sunday riding every "relaxed/comfort" geometry bike I could find. I rode the 2010 Felt Z5 (58), 2010 Giant Defy Advanced 2 (58), then 2010 Giant Defy Advanced 3 (58), 2010 Cannondale Synapse 5 (56, one size too small), 2010 Orbea Onix (56, again, one size too small and rumored to be between a comfort and race geometry), and a 2010 Specialized Tarmac(61).

I don't know if it was the wheels that made the difference of if it was just setup different, but I really liked the Giant Defy 2 better than the 3, even though the frames are the same, except for paint. The 2 has Aksiums and the 3 has Mavic CXP22's if I remember correctly. The felt was nice, but not quite as nice (for me) as the Giants. The Orbea was BY FAR my least favorite. It also was full SRAM Rival...and I learned it's not for me. I just preferred the 105 stuff.

What amazed me was how comfortable the Tarmac was. It was a larger frame, but with a shorter stem, I think that COULD be my favorite. I still want to try the Roubaix. I found out last night that my closest LBS has a 2009 Tarmac (61) and a 2010 Roubaix (61) that I hope to ride this Sunday.

I learned from everyone here to ride as many as you can. I now understand why. It is amazing the differences.

Thanks to everyone (especially PhotoJoe) for your replies. Like I said some of the websites aren't very infomative.

The Felt Z6 looks like an intriguing (affortable) option, and no-name brakes are one thing, but no-name shifters is a concern.

The Look 566 Shimano 105 is gorgeous, but it's out of my friend's budget.

I have a Cervelo RS so I know that that's way out of his budget.

In fact, all of these carbon frames are out of his budget, but I'm hoping he can raise it to get into a carbon frame. I'm letting him borrow my back up bike, a Giant OCR Composite 2. Hopefully, he'll appreciate the smoother ride.

So, my strategy is to try and find the least expensive carbon frame with primarily 105 (hopefully, less than $2000). And that's what intrigues me about the 2011 Giant Defy Advanced 3. It's $1870 or about 200$ cheaper than the 2010 Defy Advanced 3. Would the different wheelset make that much of a difference? I wonder if it's a misprint.

I'm also considering Apex, but that's another thread.

PhotoJoe, please let me know how it all turns out.

Thanks again

Also look at the Gary Fisher (TREK) road bikes.

I will let you know. I'm intrigued by your comment about this year being $200 cheaper. I have been looking at the 2010 website in my cache. I had not seen the 2011's. I do NOT like the colors of the new Defy Advanced 2, and I'm not sure about the wheels.

Another thing I've learned is that someone like me can analyze this to death. I really need to just make up my mind, pull the trigger and buy something.

I was just comparing the Advanced 3 for the two years. It appears that the main difference are the wheels. Maybe the housebrand wheels on the 2011 are pure crap. I'm sure that my friend won't be able to tell the difference, however.

Men like to get in there, make a decision, and move on. That works when we already have knowledge. This project has a learning curve and mulitple choices, so confusion is normal. It may help to write down what you observe/feel. Writing down head tube length would, IMO, also be a good idea.

You're doing everything right. Just take your time. If you need a break, take a break.

$2600 for a carbon frame with 105. That's paying quite a bit for a name, but thanks for the tip.

Your friend might want to consider a Scott CR1, which from 2010 changed from a full race to a comfort geometry. I found this to be the best bang for the buck when I bought my 2010 Ultegra equipped "Pro". The 2010 105 equipped version is the "Team" and lists for $1999 with a full carbon frame and fork and Mavic Aksium wheels. Not a bad deal compared with the others out there. I would guess you could get that discounted a bit now that the 2011models are out.
https://www.bikesale.com/scott-cr1-team-cd-2010.aspx

Spec. Roubaix, Trek Madone H3 fit, Giant Defy, Cannondale Synapse, Scott CR1, Cervelo RS, Felt Z series, Look 566 or 585 Optimum, Gary Fisher Cronus - am I missing anything?

I agree. I think I would end up selling the wheels and buying better, but the new "house brand" wheels may be tougher to sell.

Thanks, I'll check that out. Kind of strange that they would change the geometry, but keep the same name.

Thanks, that's a pretty good summary. I couldn't find the H3 fit on the Madone webpage, however

I agree that they should have changed the name but I guess that they had spent money to promote the name and had built a good reputation for the name and didn't want to start anew. BTW the full race geometry model (the former CR1) as of 2010 is now called the Addict, which is used by the Columbia pro team.

Was, HTC-High Road are riding Specialized bikes now.

RoboCheme, I would make sure to have your friend check out the CR1. I was almost set on the CR1 Elite due to no local Cervelo dealers. Luckily I waited and ended up getting the RS but the CR1 was a final contender. The geometry is much like the RS.

From what I understand, Giant, Felt, Cannondale and Specialized all have lifetime warranties on the frame. I just called Scott and they only offer 5 years. Too bad. I tend to keep my bikes for longer than most (I assume) and while it's not a deal-breaker, it is another factor to consider.

Not yet! Still using Scott this season. Switching to Specialized for the 2011 season.

https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...in-2011_146709

This season is over, at least the UCI season... https://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI2...MenuId=MTUyMjQ

OK. But the 2011 season hasn't started yet!

https://www.highroadsports.com/tools_and_tech

Not really a big deal about being right. I just wanted to let the OP know that Scott is a world class bike, capable of being used by Mark Cavendish to win multiple races and the rest of the superb HTC-Columbia athletes.

^^^I completely agree Scott makes a great bike, having owned two of the older CR1's and seriously considering the latest one! I had just read about them moving to Specialized, and Saxo winning the UCI team ranking for the year, so it was fresh on my mind...