This seems spot-on. The 61cm Roubaix felt fantastic-- see my post above about test-riding. Now if only it weren't out of my price range.

Sounds like a good shop to do business with, and that would be a good choice for a bike. Before you make a final choice, I'd make sure you checked out the Cannondale and Giant dealers; if they don't treat you as well, the decision has pretty much made itself.

There's one other wrinkle in the situation. There's a guy who wants to trade me my Guerciotti for a 2008 Specialized Tarmac Comp in a 61cm size + $400 cash. The other buyer (both are coming tomorrow) wants to pay cash that would net me $200 profit on the sale. If the bike looks in good shape and the steerer tube hasn't been cut down so low (like the current bike I have) that I couldn't get the stack height the same as on the Secteur that I rode this afternoon, I might trade him. I'd use the extra to have the bike tuned, get fresh tires (if needed), and get some accessories I want (better helmet, jersey, etc).

Does that seem reasonable? I ran this option by the guys at the shop I was test-riding, and they said that they'd take a look at the frame to make sure it was in good condition and that they'd recommend something like that to their friends-- get used carbon in good shape in the right size. They charge a nominal fee for a fitting (they said I should expect to spend 2 hours at the fitting), and I think it'd be money well spent to be sure it was dialed in.

The question now becomes: brand-new aluminum frame with Apex (shop is selling the Secteur/Apex combo for $1400, but I have seen others quoting $1250 for the same bike) or used carbon with 105 + new helmet/riding gear/etc? I'm feeling pretty confident that with the fit info we got this afternoon, I could make the Tarmac set up the same way. I'd also likely need wider bars-- my shoulders are super broad (measured 45.5cm from AC joint to AC joint). Thoughts, anyone?

My thoughts:



- You said above that after test riding extensively, at a great shop, you decided the geometry of the Secteur or Roubaix were right for you. Now you are looking at a used Tarmac. Why are you so confident you could make a Tarmac fit if the bikes you loved on your test ride are not Tarmacs?

- Bicycling is too much fun -- but potentially too painful -- to do it on a bike that doesn't fit.

Buy a bike that fits, quit screwing around w/used bikes that don't fit.

Source: my experience on bikes that don't fit, and bikes that do.

How about a frame swap? That way, you get to keep your components and have a frame that fits you. Did you think about that? Do you have an idea how much you can get for your Guerciotti frame, and whether it would be enough to get a 61 cm frame? I would go for something like that if I knew I wouldn't loose too much out of pocket.

The Tarmac is going to have a longer top tube and lower head tube height than the Secteur or the Roubaix. I would suggest since you are new that you take the cash sale and turn that around into a new bike from the shop that treats you well and get the bike you like the most. I would also try the Cannondale Synapse, and the relaxed geometry Giant (I don't know which it is but the internets do). Trek also makes more relaxed geometry bikes, since you have the chart and know that you liked the 61cm Secteur, you can compare frame geometries to pretty much anything on the internet. All of the rest of the bits on the bike can be swapped to make it fit you, I would also think that a bar swap would be included in the fitting, they swap stems and such all the time.

In the 61cm frame, the Tarmac and the Secteur have the same horizontal top tube length. The head tube on the Secteur is 15mm longer, and the head tube angle is 0.5 degrees more slack. Seat tube angles are identical. (Comparing 2011 geometries).

The wheelbase on the Secteur is longer than the Tarmac. Depending on how much stem rise and how many spacers were on the Secteur that the shop dialed in, you probably will be able to get a Tarmac to fit you nearly the same. But it will handle differently from the Secteur due to the shorter wheelbase and there won't be anything you can do to adjust that so you should test ride it to make sure it's your cup of tea.

A lot of good advice being given here. A quick couple of lessons I've learned.

- A good fit will trump "better" components any day of the week. Both in terms of comfort and performance on the bike. Having the latest DuraAce group won't mean anything if your stem is 30mm too long and you feel stretched out.
- Though we all want to save money and "used" bikes are a good way to do it, make sure it fits. If you don't, you almost always end up spending more money buying poor-fitting "used" bikes than what it would've taken to buy a new bike that fits you well.
- And find a bike that you connect with. When you come home, you want to see your bike and think "I want to go for a ride".... That connection is kind of important.

Help me understand why you'd recommend the Synapse but not the Tarmac after mentioning the head-tube and top-tube length. I'm confused. I just looked at the geometry charts, and the Synapse in the size I'd need has the exact same top-tube length as both the Tarmac and Secteur but a shorter head tube length (22cm Synapse, 23cm Tarmac, 24.5cm Secteur) than either of the Specialized bikes.

No question, that was the Secteur. I liked the Roubaix quite a bit, but I wasn't dazzled by it in a "I have to have it" kind of way. The setup wasn't as perfect for me, so maybe my perspective was off.

A Roubaix is a good newb bike. Most...not all will prefer the Tarmac as their riding evolves. OP...there is NO holy grail when it comes to fit.
Whoever told you to size up when you have short legs and a long torso got it backwards. Now a big bike will feel good to you for the simple reason it has a long head tube and the bars will be up higher. If you want to read about this philosophy check out Rivendell's website and their credo relative to fit. It doesn't comport with many that ride but for someone not acclimated to road riding, it works for many...Roubaixs fall into this camp with their tall head tubes relative to top tube length. This isn't necessarily what you want as your riding evolves. Short legged guys with a long torso need to size down and go with a long stem...for the simple reason that short legs equate to a shorter head tube. A nuance is bikes change in seat tube and head tube height more than they do top tube length from size to next size...but this maybe a bit too advanced for you to consider. In any event, it really doesn't matter where you start as you will change as your riding improves.
Simply go with the bike that feels the most comfortable right now. If you stick with it, your skill and fit WILL change.

Well, you sort of said this but you buy a bike like this:

1. Frame

2. Wheels

3. Components.

A badly fitted bike with Di2 still sucks. A properly fitted bike with Tiagra will still be fun to ride. And the first thing people tend to upgrade are the wheels. Even on a $4,000+ bike, wheels used generally retail for less than a grand. My Super Six HM Red came with Mavic Elites.

OP...Ive had a Roubaix and now ride a Tarmac...

Like the posters above have said the Tarmac and Secteur have the same TT length, but the HT on the Tarmac is shorter. Also, in new Tarmac's the top cap above the headset is shorter so the steerer is going to be tight for any vertical adjustment. I have found this out in comparing my 2010 Tarmac to my 2008 Tarmac. I was able to get the same saddle to bar drop between my 2008 Roubaix and 2008 Tarmac, but would have issues doing the same on my 2010 Tarmac. The seat tube angles are stated to be the same, but I found them to be slightly different. This stems from the fact I was able to use a zero offset post on the Roubaix, but have to use a setback post on the Tarmac to achieve the same saddle fore-aft position.

Bear in mind, as well, that the Tarmac has shorter chain stays and I slightly steeper HT (I believe) which will give tighter handling. This will also give you a bit of a harsher ride that your body may not be ready for.

Myself I started with a Roubaix and rode that for a year and a bit before moving onto the Tarmac. At that point I was ready for a more aggressive ride and now do the same length ride rides on Tarmac as I did on the Roubaix.

My advice would be to tak the cash, and buy the Secteur...You felt best on that bike and already bought one bike that didn't' work for you...

+1!

Another advantage you get with this approach would be access to the guys at the LBS, who, while they're being really helpful now, would probably be more so if you bought the bike. Asking noob questions at your LBS, where they know you and have an idea where you're headed and where you've been, is much more productive than trying to get advice from people (like me) who don't know you from Adam.

Also, when you get a new bike, the purchase price usually includes basic fitting and a couple of tune ups as the bike breaks in (usually adjustments due to cables "stretching"). If something breaks that shouldn't, you've got a warranty and people in your corner to make it right.

The Secteur speaks to you, and it fits. Don't "what if" this thing to death.