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Rolling weight question

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Rolling weight question

Old 01-22-11, 11:08 AM
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MAK
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Rolling weight question

When purchasing a new bike, is an upgrade to a set of wheels 200 grams lighter than the stock wheel set worth the $200 cost? Does a savings of 7 ounces make that much of a perceptable performance difference?
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Old 01-22-11, 11:13 AM
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not unless you are racing on mountains or losing sprints by inches
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Old 01-22-11, 11:24 AM
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If you don't race, wheels should be looked at in a what is most durable way. After comparing durability you can compare the price worthiness of the components, looks, and weight. Most likely you will not notice the difference though, other than maybe downhill if it has nicer hubs or uphill because of the weight.
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Old 01-22-11, 01:41 PM
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I'll take the other side. Yes.
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Old 01-22-11, 01:48 PM
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That's almost half a pound.. do it!
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Old 01-22-11, 02:02 PM
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I agree, half a pound for $200..it's worth it. .75-$1.00 an ounce is usually a good return, I guess. Although, you don't want to lose to much durability.
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Old 01-22-11, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MAK View Post
When purchasing a new bike, is an upgrade to a set of wheels 200 grams lighter than the stock wheel set worth the $200 cost? Does a savings of 7 ounces make that much of a perceptable performance difference?
As with most things, it depends. How was the 200 gram weight loss achieved? Do the lighter wheels use fewer spokes, less durable hubs, or flexy rims? Are they less easily serviced if something were to break (proprietary spokes, hub bearings, nipples, etc.)?

There are ways to build lightweight, durable, easily serviced wheels and they are ways to build lightweight, fragile, and factory-serviceable only wheels. What are the two wheel choices anyway?
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Old 01-22-11, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
not unless you are racing on mountains or losing sprints by inches
+1

However, I find no shame that agreeing with him makes me a hypocrite.
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Old 01-22-11, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
What are the two wheel choices anyway?
It would be a change from Bontrager Race to Bontrager Race Lite.
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Old 01-22-11, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MAK View Post
Does a savings of 7 ounces make that much of a perceptable performance difference?
No. For reference if you were to hammer up a 5 min hill at 350W with your buddies, a 1lb weight savings will make you less than 2 seconds faster. If that's important to you then by all means get them.
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Old 01-22-11, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MAK View Post
It would be a change from Bontrager Race to Bontrager Race Lite.
Honestly, I wouldn't get either of them. Both sets of wheels are overly heavy given their low spoke counts. You'd do much better with a set of hand built wheels around the same price point that will easily rival either Bontrager wheelset while using a reasonable number (28-32) of spokes. If nothing else, they'll be much easier to true.

Any chance you are buying this bike at Bike Line on 202?
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Old 01-22-11, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MAK View Post
It would be a change from Bontrager Race to Bontrager Race Lite.
Blah. I've worked on Bontrager wheels before, and they do not impress me at all.
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Old 01-22-11, 09:14 PM
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People spend a lot more to save less, so I guess from that standpoint its "worth it". Will you be able to notice a difference? Probably not - maybe when you are loading it on your bike rack. If its part of an overall weight savings plan that totals a few pounds, you might start to notice. Its hard to resist though. I ride a 20lb steel bike and still look at weight when replacing parts like seatposts, saddles, etc.
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Old 01-22-11, 09:27 PM
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I can easily notice a 200 gram lighter wheelset. I'd notice it every time I took off from a standing stop. Aside from that, unless it was part of a larger weight reduction, it wouldn't stand out. With that said, I stand by my original statement that there are better ways to get a light wheelset than an 18 spoke front wheel and 24 spoke rear wheel that still weigh around 1800 grams. I commute on a set of 32 spoke wheels with a front disc hub that weigh over 300 grams less than those Race Lite wheels and didn't cost that much more.
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Old 01-22-11, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
I can easily notice a 200 gram lighter wheelset. I'd notice it every time I took off from a standing stop.
Seriously? Can you notice the difference between a standing start at the beginning of the ride when your bottles are full and the end when they're empty? How about your body weight fluctuations?
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Old 01-22-11, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
Seriously? Can you notice the difference between a standing start at the beginning of the ride when your bottles are full and the end when they're empty? How about your body weight fluctuations?
I don't need to get my water bottles or body weight spinning to get them moving. And, ok, maybe it's more like 400 grams between the wheelsets I own when you factor in the tires being used too (still less than a water bottle though).
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Old 01-22-11, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
I don't need to get my water bottles or body weight spinning to get them moving. And, ok, maybe it's more like 400 grams between the wheelsets I own when you factor in the tires being used too (still less than a water bottle though).
You should read up on rotational mass more. Although it does have real characteristics, it does not give an object more inertia.
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Old 01-23-11, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
You should read up on rotational mass more. Although it does have real characteristics, it does not give an object more inertia.
So it takes no more energy to get a wheel translating and spinning than it does to just get it translating?
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Old 01-23-11, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
So it takes no more energy to get a wheel translating and spinning than it does to just get it translating?
The amount of energy it takes to spin ~4lb pair of wheels up to 300 rpm is negligible as it is (take a wheel's axles between your thumbs and index fingers and give it a good flick with your middle finger to see what I'm talking about), and you're talking about feeling the difference of spinning 4lb versus 3.6lb. I'm not saying you can't do it, but it makes me want to place a pea under your mattress.
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Old 01-23-11, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
The amount of energy it takes to spin ~4lb pair of wheels up to 300 rpm is negligible as it is (take a wheel's axles between your thumbs and index fingers and give it a good flick with your middle finger to see what I'm talking about), and you're talking about feeling the difference of spinning 4lb versus 3.6lb. I'm not saying you can't do it, but it makes me want to place a pea under your mattress.
Well, I did revise my comment to make it more like 4 lbs. vs. 3.1 lbs. Perhaps it's a combination of lower rolling resistance tires and the weight but the bike feels livelier with the lighter wheelset. Notice I'm not claiming average speed gains (I know we all love them) or better time trial times (or commute times in my case).

How much weight do you need to add/remove before you can feel a difference, out of curiosity?
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Old 01-23-11, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
How much weight do you need to add/remove before you can feel a difference, out of curiosity?
For me personally? I honestly don't know, and this is why I'm such a hypocrite as I love bragging about my 1375g aluminum clincher wheelset I built. I THINK I can feel the weight difference when I'm loaded up for a climbing century with my extra clothing layers, 2 full 28oz bottles in the cages plus a small one in my back pocket, and plenty of food; but even that can be placebo.

I definitely notice the 30 lb I've gained over the past year due to dramatically reduced riding
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Old 01-23-11, 11:52 AM
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would be easy enough to quantify this with a set of rollers and a powermeter
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Old 01-23-11, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
would be easy enough to quantify this with a set of rollers and a powermeter
been done
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