Originally Posted by surgeonstone (Post 12317758)

So you know me so well that you can dismiss me as an " anti-helmet stereotype " huh. Interesting.
And I remind you of pro smokers. Even more interesting
Couple of questions.
1) Which article or web site do smokers quote to justify their addictions safety?
2) What makes you think I did an immediate search for the link to this discussion? I did not by the way.

Really you and I are more alike than you think. I have been a pro-helmet "zealot" from 1985, when decent helmets arrived on the scene, until this year.
I have been an anti-smoking zealot since 1958. You were most likely an un united sperm and ova at this time.
I have been pro motorcycle helmet since 1971, the year I started riding motorcycles (Still do), and remain so.
I have been pro seat belt use since they were available and remain so.
Why? Because I love life and hate that which is opposed to it.
So why the difference now for me with regards to bicycle helmet use and why would I, as a physician, suggest something that some would regard as dangerous and foolhardy.
Well, in defending helmet use and quoting the oft quoted article in New England Journal of Medicine (Bicycle helmet safety, Thompson, 1989)
I stumbled across contrarian views in the Safety and Advocacy forum ( Helmets cramp my style ). Reading some obviously informed but opposing views made me wonder more about this topic. So I spent quite a few hours reading the entire thread, thinking about what I read, thinking about my own experience and chasing down the various articles, both pro and con. In doing this I tried to keep an open mind.
After reading and rereading I came to the conclusion that ....

1) No one is suggesting that children or new riders go without helmets. They should not.
2) In this area of science, anecdotes rule.
3) No well designed study shows bicycle helmets save lives.
4) Helmet manufacturers themselves note that helmets will NOT prevent concussions. How often do you read here that I was not "Concussed" because I had my helmet on.
5) Studies of populations where helmet legislation was enacted fail to show any difference in injury or death rate and do show a dramatic reduction in bicycle usage.
6) Every whole population study of motorcycle helmet use or seat belt use DOES show marked reduction of head injury and fatality rates. Why is this NOT the case with bicycle helmets. Could it be they are not very effective?

So do I still remind you of a smoker?

Really I am not at all a zealot about this. I don't go around while riding telling people that they are wearing the only cycling accessory that fails to do what it is advertised to do. I really don't care if you wear one or not. But I would prefer that you not make assumptions about me that are somewhat ignorant. Still, I assure you I will like you no less if you do. And I am sure that our common likes ( cycling) would more than likely allow us to enjoy each others company on a ride. Hey, I won't even tell you to loose the helmet.

Originally Posted by 18hockey (Post 12420814)

Sorry it took so long to reply, life has been busy lately. Let's see you ignore the main point I made and then spent all that space trying to prove that you aren't a zealot...yep, exactly like a smoker.

Originally Posted by surgeonstone (Post 12420987)

Your pathetic.

Originally Posted by 18hockey (Post 12425334)

Surgeonstone, you keep following the same route smokers take in their discussions with non-smokers. Could you please try harder to make my comparison not be so obviously correct? Thanks, and enjoy your night Mr. Anonymous Internet Tough Guy.

Originally Posted by TacoPropelled (Post 12425456)

I don't see why everyone has to be in a smoker's business, anyway. They smoke, so what. Same goes with helmets.

Originally Posted by surgeonstone (Post 12425531)

18hockey
This would be a smokers statement as regards to helmets-" It's my right not to wear a helmet..who are you to to tell me what to do" end of argument.
I have never had a smoker do research on why they should or should not be allowed to smoke. In 25 years of medical practice it has not happened.

You, on the other hand, proclaim any thought process longer than a sentence to be the route that smokers take.

Originally Posted by Excelsius (Post 12425753)

Holy Dali, really, just let it go dude. You're a surgeon, or so you say, yet you ignore laws of physics, scientific evidence, and even politics and continue making unsubstantiated claims about helmets. Your grammar is limping and you're spending way too much time on a forum for a surgeon who usually works very long hours (I happen to do research at a med school). Your posts are bereft of any science and the best attempt you made was that link to a site similar to conspiracy theory advocation. In the worst case scenario, you could claim confusion and state that you're not sure that helmets work or not (based on rare "side effects"). The truth is that no one cares what your or anybody else's personal preference is. If you smoke crack, it is your right to do that. But if you go on TV at every opportunity you get and promulgate that crack has no health side effects because you have tiger blood, you can rest assured that some people are going to be annoyed and assume you're a lune, especially given that you're saying you're a doctor! Do you understand this distinction?

As a side note, assuming you're a doctor, if you told one of your patients that wearing a helmet is not only purposeless, but can be dangerous, your arse would be llitigated in court if that patient fell and sustained any injuries. And yes, you would either settle or lose in court. I know you would never make such bold personal claims, but this is the internets - everyone is a lion and has a huge e-peen.

Originally Posted by surgeonstone (Post 12425531)

18hockey
This would be a smokers statement as regards to helmets-" It's my right not to wear a helmet..who are you to to tell me what to do" end of argument.
I have never had a smoker do research on why they should or should not be allowed to smoke. In 25 years of medical practice it has not happened.

You, on the other hand, proclaim any thought process longer than a sentence to be the route that smokers take.

Originally Posted by 18hockey (Post 12425895)

You crack me up, besides being an obviously angry individual, you also seem to think that the only things that exist in life are things that personally involved you.

Keep playing the anonymous internet tough guy roll, you may just "win" the internet one of these days and then you can tell all of your patients about it.

Originally Posted by Accordion (Post 12426144)

I've got 8000 miles on the road in the past year. Every single one of them on my road bike with a helmet.

I was riding my 45-pound Nirve single-speed Cruiser down the bike path at about 10 mph and this dude pulled up on a road bike next to me and told me I really need to be wearing a helmet. I asked him if I was doing anything illegal. He said no so I said thank you for your unsolicited opinion. He continued to tell me about his friend that fell in Newport and was in a coma for 2 years and then died. I then told him, and I mean in an EXTREMELY rude manner to continue to ride his bike and leave me the #@$% alone. He knew nothing about me and made some unsolicited judgement call. I run faster than I tool around on my cruiser and I'll take the chance that I may fall on big fat 3.0 tires a foot above the ground.

Originally Posted by surgeonstone (Post 12426209)

I confess...I do wear a helmet...sometimes. Like when I am riding with my kids or others that feel them to be important. When riding my normal, very isolated rides I go without. My typical 2-3 hr ride is one where I typically am passed by 10-15 cars total. In a city...I would wear a helm.....shoot there I go again....just can't let it alone.

Originally Posted by bikerjp (Post 12426275)

Any railroad tracks? Hit one of those wrong and your surgeon buddies will be working on you. ...

Originally Posted by 18hockey (Post 12430648)

How many more times will surgeonstone say he will not post about this topic or in response to me...and then post again?

Originally Posted by rufvelo (Post 12426369)

I visit this after about a month, was hoping we'd have some sort of consensus on this by now, not sure what to do this weekend, helmet or not?